Mic level into Line level input

M. Gilden

M. Gilden

Canon DSLR Moderator
So I'm experimenting with the idea of using an Atomos Ninja's audio input for multiple synced microphones (2 channels from the camera's HDMI, 2 from the analog input = 4 track recorder synced with video!). Problem is, the audio input on the Atomos appears much lower than that of the camera. Upon further investigation, its because the Atomos only supports line level and not mic (duh, I should have realized that first!).

So, I'm looking for something simple and affordable that can give me enough gain to go from mic to line. Someone recommended those iPhone XLR mic adapters (irig, etc) which can power a phantom powered +48v mic and feed it into a 1/8" output with its own not-too-shabby preamp. I don't really need phantom power, and while these have surprisingly good and powerful preamps for the price, its not exactly mic-to-line level. But I can't seem to find anything specifically made for this that isn't a big honking mixer. Is there something out there I'm not seeing? Or is this just not a common enough marketable item that options exist for?
 
What is your budget? There are lots of mic preamp products out there.

It isn't clear from the Atomos specs whether it will record more than 2 channels of audio.
It says "2ch 48K" for Analog Line and "2ch 48K" for HDMI.
But it never explicitly says now many audio tracks it records.
 
Richard Crowley said:
What is your budget? There are lots of mic preamp products out there.
Click to expand...
I'm open to ideas, but would like to keep it under $100. Considering the iRig option is only like $30-$40, I can always go that route if nothing else exists.

It isn't clear from the Atomos specs whether it will record more than 2 channels of audio.
It says "2ch 48K" for Analog Line and "2ch 48K" for HDMI.
But it never explicitly says now many audio tracks it records.
Click to expand...

Oh, I can assure you it does! I've done it, and its actually super cool. On screen it shows you 2 sets of stereo meters. You can select in their menus which inputs are active (hdmi or audio in) or select both. You can also choose which set is being sent out to the headphone jack to monitor. Its actually really powerful and cool. If you select both sets of inputs, when you open the clip in post it has 4 mono audio tracks attached to the video.

The only issue I had with this setup is that the mic going into the Atomos directly was low. It has an analog gain on the Atomos that allows me to apply +12db, but even then I needed to boost it another 20-30 in post to get the volume normalized. Thankfully, the Atomos has a pretty low noise floor so even with all this digital and analog gain applied, it still sounded pretty darned usable. But I was also standing pretty close to the mic and don't think this would work as well if my mic were out of the frame.

I guess what I'm looking for is something battery powered that will just apply some gain to the line that I can easily attach to a rig. Something higher quality than a headphone amplifier, but not a big fancy mixer / recorder like the DR-60D. I guess the more I'm thinking about it, the more that irig thingy makes the most sense. Unless there is something else that fits my needs that I'm not considering? I don't need the phantom power, and its weird adapting something made for an iPhone to use on my Atomos recorder. :P
 
Richard Crowley said:
How about something like the Nady DMP-2?

http://www.nady.com/products/microphone-preamps/dmp-2/
Click to expand...

That sounds perfect on paper! I looked it up on Amazon to find reviews, however, and it seems that most people found it rather noisy. One guy claims to have found it was because of poorly soldered connections on the XLR input. If not for that, I'd totally consider this. Seems the right size, powered by a 9v battery... anything else like it out there that's maybe more reliable?
 
Well, moving up the scale of reputation, there is Beachtek with something like their DXA-Pocket
http://beachtek.com/dxa-pocket/
It just barely makes it within your budget, but it has only 30dB of gain.
Because it was made to feed a DSLR or low-end video camera with 3.5mm stereo MIC input.
So it is a big question mark whether it puts out a signal capable of driving the Atomos Ninja?

But your budget of $100 rather severely limits your choices as most quality units are well above that price.
 
Richard Crowley said:
Well, moving up the scale of reputation, there is Beachtek with something like their DXA-Pocket
http://beachtek.com/dxa-pocket/
It just barely makes it within your budget, but it has only 30dB of gain.
Because it was made to feed a DSLR or low-end video camera with 3.5mm stereo MIC input.
So it is a big question mark whether it puts out a signal capable of driving the Atomos Ninja?

But your budget of $100 rather severely limits your choices as most quality units are well above that price.
Click to expand...

That's actually a really cute little option. The Ninja's input is =a 3.5mm stereo line input, so the format works. I'm currently feeding it with an XLR-to-3.5mm cable from my mic- so I could just feed it into this and then go from that output to the Ninja's. I'd like to have more than 30db of gain, but the truth is in my test (gain in ninja maxed up to +12db) I only had to raise it about 20-30db in post. Then again I was speaking almost directly into the mic. Maybe I'd want more gain if the mic were further, but this is definitely a start.

Noiz- That's a sweet little mixer, but too big to fit on my camera rig. Ideally I'd want something battery powered and inline- I think I saw a 20dB gain XLR attachment once, actually. It just sticks out the back of the mic, making the mic a tad longer. But if I recall correctly, it was only phantom powered.
 
Well your not going to find much that is battery powered, small, quiet, and consumer level cheap.
 
Noiz2 said:
Well your not going to find much that is battery powered, small, quiet, and consumer level cheap.
Click to expand...

I know that. But I figured, if the iRig is like $39 and also offers fantom power, maybe there's something similar available that I wasn't aware of. Worth a shot. Looks like right now I'd consider either that or the beachtek.
 
The only "iRig" I see is made for musical instrument sources.
None of them are designed for use with microphones that I can see.
Dunno how an "iRig" is a possible solution to the problem as described?
 
Richard Crowley said:
The only "iRig" I see is made for musical instrument sources.
None of them are designed for use with microphones that I can see.
Dunno how an "iRig" is a possible solution to the problem as described?
Click to expand...

Not sure what you're looking at, but I'm pretty sure it isn't the same thing I am referring to. iRig is one of a few solutions to connect pro-level mics to recording apps on iOS devices. Pinout is wrong for audio (third pin for mic), but a cable adapter fixes that and/or opening it up and changing the wiring yourself, which I recently saw someone demonstrate.
http://filmkit.net/posts/show/4589/tutorial-use-the-irig-pre-as-a-dslr-preamp
 
The iRig-XLR is only one channel (you asked for two).
And it still outputs only mic level. Quite possibly not enough for the Atomos line-level input.
 
Richard Crowley said:
The iRig-XLR is only one channel (you asked for two).
And it still outputs only mic level. Quite possibly not enough for the Atomos line-level input.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct. Its only one. And I'm not sure how much gain it will actually apply. I don't know if it will work. But folks who used it with a DSLR claim that turning their camera's mic levels as low as they could go would still get plenty of sound with the iRig not even at full volume. That's not nothing, and tells me this thing is probably capable of applying quite a bit of gain. If it can do 20-30db, I can probably work with that. And it if it does, in fact, work, I can get two of them and easily connect them to the Atomos' input with a stereo breakout cable and still be well under my budget. Its not an elegant solution, I'll give it that, but as I said before- this is an experiment to see if it would somehow be useful to have in my toolkit for the future. Hence the limited budget.
 
Hey guys, reviving old thread. Upping my budget since I found other possible uses beyond this experiment.
Looks like the Beachtek DXA-SLR (active version) could do the trick, and be a pretty useful box for supplying phantom when necessary. Looks like they are around $140-160 used. But then I noticed that the Tascam DR-60D is around the same ballpark price, and appears to offer everything it does but also throws in a recorder should I want to go that route.

It somewhat negates the purpose of using the Atomos as a 4-track recorder if the Tascam is, itself, a 4 track recorder. But for the price, it doesn't look like there's any more cost effective way to do this. Opinions?
 
Is this just for reference audio or is this meant to be actual usable audio. If it's just for dailies, then whatever cheap option you can find, but you won't find much that's useful for $100 or less. I would recommend something from Sound Devices, like the MixPre-D or something like that, but that blows your budget, but for audio, you should probably budget more money.
 
davefisk said:
Actually, now that you mention recorders, the Tascam DR-701D would probably be the perfect solution if a DSLR is involved.
Click to expand...
But I think that misses the point. The OP isn't asking how to record redundant audio. He already HAS an external device to record redundant video and audio. He just needs line-level audio into the gadget.
 
Richard Crowley said:
But I think that misses the point. The OP isn't asking how to record redundant audio. He already HAS an external device to record redundant video and audio. He just needs line-level audio into the gadget.
Click to expand...

Richard gets it. I'm not at all interested in spending $500+ right now when my current audio gear is more than enough for running a one-man-show. I mean, I'm sure the DR-701D is a nice piece of kit, but for anything that required a 6-track recorder I'd likely have hired an audio guy already with his own gear.

This was an experiment to see if I could simplify my workflow by using my Atomos recorder's ability to record 4 audio tracks synced with video. The Atomos accepts line-level input, which means that I'm not really able to plug my mics directly into it. I was looking for something to boost without noticeably degrading quality. For that simple task, I'm willing to spend up to $150-175. More than that, and it looks like the DR-60D would not only do the job but also be its own recorder which means I can take my other redundant recorder off the rig and at least have less gear to setup at a job.

I appreciate all the suggestions. Sadly, I just can't justify or rationalize the cost of some of them.

TL;DR: I'm down to considering a TR-60D unless I can get something specifically to just amplify a signal for closer to $100 and use it with my Atomos.
 
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