Menu button, VCR mode button broken...

J

Jiggityjiggs

Member
Everything else on the camera works fine but the menu button and the button to switch between VCR mode and camera mode do not work.

Any ideas?
 
I've seen threads about this cropping up everywhere, I've added to some myself.
Are any of your cameras from the HVX200P series like HVX200PJu? The later HVX200 models shipping with a 16GB P2 cards?

Most Commonly described as the Flat cable or Flex cable problem.

Repair will run you around $300 per each incident. It's known to be re-occuring.

Here are other threads I've found:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=175227
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=153611

My best recommendation instead of Calling to New Jersey, and being passed around from hold muisc to hold music, and then finally reaching their Consumer tech support line is to hit this site.

http://www.pstc.panasonic.com/WhereTo/FindServicer.asp?Pass=1

Here you'll need to type out your model number like so AGHVX200 without dashes and with AG in the front, and your zipcode/location, this will let you find and call a local service center.
 
I would check to make sure that non of the rubber buttons are stuck anywhere on the camera. We've had a few people send in there cameras for this problem. Otherwise, it is most likely the issue that you have mentioned above.

Please let me know if you need our help in getting the camera fixed.

Sincerely,

Andrew Hoffman
Specialized Communications Corp.
www.spec-comm.com
andrewh@spec-comm.com
 
Andrew,

Thanks for your reply.

It would really help if I knew which flex/flat cable the issue is referring to, I double verified that no buttons are stuck, and tried them via thr IR remote as well. I can only venture that if the Back C.B.A is connected to the TOP-OP C.B.A via a 12pin it is the most likely suspect. Next would be whatever the Two of those are connected to, which would be the CAM C.B.A.

Also it would help immensely if someone who had this fixed or fixed this issue at any point would mention if its just the Flex cable itself, or the crimp connectors for those flex cables, as a Flex cable replacement is not a huge problem, but surface mount flex cable receptacles on either of the three C.B.A.'s in question

(C.B.A. I assume is Circuit Board Assembly acronym taken from the HVX200P/202EN Service Manual)

If anyone had this repaired, could someone look up the flex cable part number for this issue on their receipt (there are about 5-6 total) others are not cables, but bridge boards.

Also I would venture that this (After speaking with a few people) could only be a result of one of two things. Since this issue creeps up with-in one year of cameras function regardless of how longs its been used.

Things it cannot be: Heat, Overuse, Environment to degrade an internal cable - Exposure to G-Forces like taking your HVX on a Plane or on a Roller Coaster

Hypothesis 1: Slow drying adhesives pulling the cable apart, like a piece of yellow tape holding it and becoming taught.
Hypothesis 2: Chemical reactivity of cable, terminals, plastic (sort of like the iron/copper reacting and eroding one another).

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks Kindly Again.
 
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I've went through 4 steps of disassembly of the HVX200P, the zoom cover plate, bottom cover and the LCD display/Button/F-Stop module removal. Took some pictures and will create another thread as I get further. Now available here : http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=177130

Could someone who has done repairs on the FLEX/FLAT cable issue or has had it repaired please post the part number for this FLEX/FLAT cable? Each one has a tag and a label.

The issue is again described as MENU (on the TOP of the CAMERA) and the MODE (REC/VCR/P2 on the back of the camera) becoming disabled.

Next steps in disassembly will be the Handle/MIC then the EVF and top Panel cover/Back panel cover and handle removal.

I ask again kindly if someone either repairing or having this repair performed please post the part number for the FLEX/FLAT cable which they replace or had replaced, this way I would know how much of the camera I would have to un-build to get to all the connectors the cable is attached to.

Looks like all modules in the camera have plugable FPC connectors - even power and battery, so the HVX200P is a completely modular camera. So given a proper diagnosis, one can swap out a PCB, broken XLR jacks, etc.. Aside from skipping mechanized parts like the DV deck and the lens/zoom motor assemblies it would be farily easy to replace or swap most modules with two simple screwdrivers and being careful. Though I have rebuilt about 50+ laptops by hand, so it may not be your cup of tea if you're not careful.

Found 3 extra connectors on the camera, one behind the battery for DIAG and two more below the bottom panel (tripod plate) don't know what those are for, as the service manual does not describe them.

At this moment I've assembled the camera back and works as it did prior to disassembly (tested for about 15 minutes) every button and the LCD.
 
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Ok, I am also having this problem. I completely dissasembled my HVX200 3 times and putting it back together the 3rd time seemed to have fixed the problem temporarily. 3 days later it stopped working again.

Does anyone know exactly which cable it is that is defective and where to get one?

Thanks!
 
seattlematt said:
Ok, I am also having this problem. I completely dissasembled my HVX200 3 times and putting it back together the 3rd time seemed to have fixed the problem temporarily. 3 days later it stopped working again.

Does anyone know exactly which cable it is that is defective and where to get one?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hi, I have the same problem, I did the same, I've also started a photo tutorial on how to take the camera apart, In hopes of contributing to the community as a whole, and also getting an answer as to what part number is needed to be replaced, which flat/flex cable is chaffing and causing the shorted out MCR/Menu buttons. - Zero Replies.

Here is the link: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=177130
based on the official Panasonic service manual. On this forum there are about 5 service shops reps, and prob a dozen people whom have had their cameras repaired for this exact problem. There is also a Panasonic REP reading these forums. Out of these 3 groups of people.

No one after 1 month has answered - as to what ribbon/flat cable part number was either;

A) Replaced and purchased when the user fixed their camera (by the users who had their cams repaired)

B) Which ribbon/flex cable the shop typically replaces (from the repair shops)

C) From the Panasonic Rep who prob. knows which is the most often ordered cable, and knows about this more than frequently occuring problem with the HVX200P series, usu. with-in 1/2 months outside of warranty, without the end-user doing anything adverse to the camera, meaning its a design flaw or a part flaw.

But now, unlike the battery problem, with all the early HVX200s it's never going to be an out-of warranty repair, nor is anyone disclosing the part number. Since most influential users in this forum have moved on to using the Red ONE, while the remaining few stay silent for one or another reason. Possibly for the good of the community as a whole. I don't know myself. Looking for answers.

@seattematt
========

You can obtain any of the flex cables via Panasonic parts, some online, some via a phone call to their parts department. Not all are listed online. Mostly all are listed in the Service Manual. The Service manual is floating around on the net, do not pay some profiteering website 15.00 to obtain it. Look on the YouTube like site for PDF files. The Service CD/DVD manual is also available from Panasonic Parts.

Most posts like this over time, have resulted in "Go to a Authorized Panasonic Service Center", which will tell you its a known issue, and the repair will be about $50 parts $300 labor. The procedure will take weeks, so if you're shooting something while this happens, you're renting another HVX.

I trust myself to un-build the camera correctly and carefully and would like just the part number for the known FLAT/Flex cable issue.

There have been at least 20 users posting about this on this forum, and more to come, judging by the popularity of the HVX200P. Each one will create a new thread and
get the same canned answer.

So, I ask the mods.
============

Why is there not a sticky for this problem?

Just a single thread. Judging by membership in forum and purchases of these cameras, 20 in this forum means 2000 repairs in the real world. The camera is completely modular, easy to disassemble if you're careful and know the steps. If neither the lens assembly nor the DV25 tape deck are involved, neither is reprogramming EPROMS on individual boards via the service module and some DOS/Windows software serial cable, than why not disclose the "best guess" answer for what would be a simple field repair. I would even buy a second one of those ribbon cables as a hot-spare, just to be prudent.

I know the problem can be deeper with a bad PCB, and most users that realize that surface mount soldering and expensive equipment will be required we all (the DIY crowd) will take it in for service, I just don't get why this simple problem with a known resolution path is not nailed up. Some DP's and 1st Camera are able to do this themselves and save time and money on a on-going shoot, some are not, and that's fine. Why withhold information?

:-(.

P.S. It's so silly, after seeing someone come out and diagnose a problem with a Digibeta codec board, the guy just replaced it at one of the facilities I worked in (same day), plain and simple. Why is it such an obfuscated or rather cloacked process with the P2 cam, where Panasonic's Corporate transparancy has been far greater that that of the vendor of Digibeta.
 
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Thanks for all your posting information. It does seem a little odd that it could be one of these cables causing the problem. I inspected all of them and there wasn't any obvious short in the cable. I wonder if it is the PCB connectors?

I also feel that if it were a cable it seems more likely that it is the short cables running from the top PCB to the side, rather than the long one running around the camera.
 
seattlematt said:
Thanks for all your posting information. It does seem a little odd that it could be one of these cables causing the problem. I inspected all of them and there wasn't any obvious short in the cable. I wonder if it is the PCB connectors?

I also feel that if it were a cable it seems more likely that it is the short cables running from the top PCB to the side, rather than the long one running around the camera.
Click to expand...

Okay, You've had success by unbuilding the entire camera and assembling it back, so the issue must be somewhat mechanical, meaning re-seating connectors and moving flat cables around made it work, but then the flat cable either pulled itself off the connector or made contact with the aluminum body to short out again? Posible?

What PCB's did you displace before the CAM started responding to MCR/Menu?

I've removed the viewfinder/top menu buttons. to expose the TOP-OP CBA then reattached the Side LCD pannel and powered on the cam.

I've also tried to move around/wiggle some of the ribbon cables to see if the camera does go into MENU or MCR without success. I did not disassemble the
entire camera to absolute parts as of yet, I would not like to touch the Tape Deck or the Lens Assembly at all as those require re-calibration or adjustment after.

The only cable I suspect is the 40+ pin cable to the side of the TOP-OP CBA next to the two paired connectors linking it to the PCMCIA card loader board beneath it.

It goes into the camera and is indeed tight against the metal plate cover. I don't know what board it lands on in order to find the other side of that FLAT cable and its connector to run a continuity test on each of the pins.

In this photo you can see its the cable that has a 90 degree bend, right below the on camera speaker, right next to the 12 pin red/white/blue cable. On that side you have 4 FLAT cables, 2 connect the PCMCIA/P2 board to the top op board, one connects the LCD side assembly, the last one goes around aluminum at a 90% angle into the camera, I don't know what its attached to.


3711581443_86cfefa2c5_b.jpg



BTW disconnecting the afore mentioned ribbon cable and operating the camera yelds equivalent results, record functions work, so does REC-CHECK (playback from P2) but does not go into FireWire Host, or VTR modes.

On my cam the EFV is off, but in order to get to that flat cable I would need to remove the TOP-OP board with its plastic buttons. And the P2/PCMCIA board (I'm going to upload more photos that I've taken into the other thread.)

The buttons are not rubber, like I would have expected on a computer keyboard, its a good design the rubber is only embedded in the plastic covers, the buttons are metal contacts with plastic overlays, those overlays are the ones that get pushed by the rubber pieces, so to have a stuck button is quite possible if the plastic assembly beneath the rubber breaks and locks itself in place. Only way to check that a button is not permanently pressed in is to take of the plastic cover over that set of buttons and inspect the elements underneath.

No other flat cable seems mechanically tight or have extreme bending on it aside from that one. I don't know if the camera checks for short cables during boot-up, therefore manipulating it after camera is started yelds no result.

Here the current state of the disassembly of my camera is right now, you'll notice I've reconnected the LCD Panel, after taking of the Handle Bar and the TOP-OP buttons, speaker and a couple of other cover-plates. The step by step has been posted into this thread http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=177130 (part 2). I'm skipping part 3 for now, since the LCD replacement costs 700.00 in parts alone for a DIY repair. In this photo you can clearly see the plastic parts of the buttons including the menu button.

Here you can also see the DV25 Deck and Rec Button and the Zoom Lever connected to the TOP-OP-CBA via 3 blue/white flat cables. TOTAL of 5 FLAT cables to the TOP-OP board, 2 MORE bridge Cables and one more 12 Pin regular cable.


3782715455_f4928dd55b_b.jpg
 
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I've tested continuity and identified all 3 cables going from the Back Panel CBA to the Camera.

* Notes on the 5 Pin Regular Cable - Connects to CODEC Board.

Looks like the pins supply +/- and ground (tested continuous). Possibly this is the Firewire 1394 Delivery from the CODEC board.

* Notes on the 12 Pin Regular Cable - Connects to TOP-OP Board. Possibly delivery of all sound to the back, Headphones and Volume controls for Recording.

Pins 1 through 9 serve up voltage and readings from the Volume Level Controls for AUDIO 1 and AUDIO 2
Pins 10,11,12 are labeled HP_L, HP_DET_L, HP_R. (Possibly This is for the Head Phone Jack on the Back and DET is detecting if headphones are inserted)


*Notes on Cable E41447-SHC - 24 PIN One Sided Flat Cable Connecting the BACK PANEL CBA to CODEC CBA. - Everything Else including RTC Lithium Ion Battery

Pin 1 - GROUND
Pin 2 - MEDIA_SW. (Most likely the Click switch between P2 and DV25 TAPE)
Pin 3 - BE_SCAN 1 (Don't know what this means) Possibly P1 and P2 card LED lamps, but I think it would say LED.
Pin 4 - BE_SCAN 2 (Don't know what this means)
Pin 5 through 10 labeled BE_KEY_IN1 trhough IN6 - Initially I thought it was for the F1-F6 Color mode selector, but looking over other diagrams, it looks like this is the Keyboard Delivery. If someone could correct me I would appreciate it.
Pin 11 - Ground
Pin 12 - Remote Control Sensor Back
Pin 13 - Tally LED
Pin 14-15 not described or unused.
Pin 16 - Cam LED (Red LED)
Pin 17 - MCR LED
Pin 18 - PC_DUB LED
Pin 19-20 Ground
Pin 21 - not specified
Pin 22 - RTC_3V (Power for the FLASH EPROM from Back Battery 3 Volts)
Pin 23 - not specified
Pin 24 - D5V (not D S V - D 5 Volts - Unknown)

Unsure on what PIN of what cable the MCR/VRC toggle switch is carried nor the EVF DTL switch.
The Back Panel also has a Lithium Ion Battery that makes the camera "remember" things like the time of day, or time-code counter.

---

A) It looks like the switch Identified by "MODE" is carried on BE_SCAN[2] and BE_KEYIN[1] which is the MCR/VCR toggle - PIN 4 and PIN 5 of the 24 pin ribbon cable.to CODEC BOARD.
B) Looking at the TOP-OP diagram the MENU button - Switch ID SW401 is carried on BE_SCAN3 and BE_KEYIN1 carried via a 70PIN cable to the P2 Card board.
 
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YAY! - Just like SeattleMatt - most likely it will be temporary, but - Taking a wild guess, sort of a stab in the dark -
the official repair strategy is prob. to just reseat the 3 PCB's and swap out all the FPC cables and wait to see if it breaks again.
Fixed it temporarily w/o added Parts
-------------------------------------------

My guess to the repair strategy is that those cables will test continuous when you tape them to your desk and use a volt meter, the may not do this in when flexed into position in the CAM.

Pictures to Follow, but In my Log of Activities I've described what Connectors I've tested, reseated and I've only had to unbuild the camera to the CODEC PCB. Pictures to Follow!

--- LOG of Activities ---
CAM-TOP FPC Cable Model: VJB03G96 (1) - 80 PIN (40 Side A/ 40 Side B)
Connects TOP-OP Board Connector P107 to CAMERA Board Connector P6

Two Short Cables Model : VJB03G94-1 - 70 PIN (35 Side A/ 35 Side B) -
Connect the P2 Board Connectors P102 and P100 to CODEC Board Connectors P6 and P4 respectively.

The Second of the 70 Pins - I'll call it B is:

Connector P6 on CODEC and P100 on P2CARD boards contains BE_KEYIN1 through 6 and BE_SCAN3 (which carry MENU/MCR button info)

Bottom CON PCB VJB001N3 (4) - Connects VTR to CODEC 70PIN (35A and 35B)
*Tested Continuous* not a suspect yet.


Reseated Cables VMJ1844-2 and P102, P103 and P105 on TOP-OP

Reseated TOP-OP to P2 board (1 On PCB Connector Each) - Not Flex Cable
Reseated CODEC board 4 on PCB Connectors to Camera Board.

Reseated 24Pin Cable from CODEC to BACK-OPS boards.


I'm currently dumping out the P2 card footage via FireWire, and as the camera is open I've noticed the CODEC board aluminum material gets quite hot during this operation, Like a computer CPU hot.
 
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Photos of the camera MCR/Menu/FW working after the CODEC, TOP_OP and the Above operations were completed.
3797398556_025e505c9e.jpg

3796580759_8a4aa21776.jpg

3797400600_552d7dae70.jpg
 
I see this is an old thread but have the same problem with my hvx.. :/
My warranty is long gone and I´ll probably have to send it in, but why not try it myself first? What harm can I possibly do? ;)

I wonder how long this operation worked? Did it actualy fix the cam?
Has anyone else tried this?
 
Thanks for the help. Very helpful. I've had 3 HVX's in 8 years, first one just did this when I shipped across the country.
 
Any updates on this thread? I just picked up a HVX200 with the same button problem. Should have it in my hands in a few days. Has anyone identified the most likely cable? I'm wondering if applying Stabilant to the connections would help. Looking for the factory service manual and all I can find is ones to purchase. Not looking to throw to much money into this.
Bill Wojo
 
Hey, we both replied to the same add on here. I take it you bought some P2 cards. I got the camera and 1 4GB card. For 100 bucks it's worth a shot at fixing. DJDecay has some good info on how to take it apart. Sure sounds like a cable connection problem. Worth more than I paid on Ebay as a parts camera anyway.
Bill Wojo
 
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