May Be an Outlaw

xxrotinivol2

xxrotinivol2

Active member
"MAY BE AN OUTLAW"

Logline:
An old man drags his daughter's body across the desert. Retribution has been paid.

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Out of all the excitement for this contest to start, I've finally finished my poster! Read the script, let me know what you think.
 

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i just finished reading this, and i really liked it.

i didn't read your logline at first but i easily figured out that randolph is beatrice's father, good job on that. the scene where randolph sits in his chair in his house and has the gun aimed at the door, and then it's kicked open, reminded me of kill bill vol2, which made me like that scene alot more.

i didn't expect this to be so violent, but it's probably the most explicit script we have in the fest right now (which is good)

good job.
 
Hi XX, I just read your script, thanks for entering.

SPOILERS*

I thought this was a horrible story (in a good way) with the bad guys winning in the end, and the good powerless against them. The father and daughter are forced to bow to these monsters. There are some really powerful scenes in there and horrific. Some of your wording let it down though, there are better ways to descibe things and I found myself being pulled out of the moment because of this.
Your characters were well developed and your dialogue was very good. You set your scenes really well and grabbed my attention from the opening scene.
I am sure our definitions of a number 2 are quite different?!?!

Overall a really powerful piece, with a horrific story. Well done.
 
Hey there! Yes this is definately a script that will split people and while reading it myself I found myself liking parts and disliking others!

In premise it follows the most basic principle of classic American westerns - the fight is over a woman! This setup was well represented here, we had the stage set, and potentially interesting characters - and a great and powerful opening scene! However for that to work it really needs some oomph (deeper - under the superficial gross descriptions and violent scenes) and this was a bit lacking I felt.

Horror requires contrast and challenge - and it definately needs a hint of worthiness or point to rise beyond mere exploitation.

For me this one teetered too much to the sadistic/misogynistic while yet the script had nothing to really say about these issues itself. Some of the sexual violence came across as titillating with the use of perhaps inappropriate descriptive words. (Especially as you are trying i presume to evoke sympathy for the girl.) Theres a big difference between the rape scene in a film like Irreversible and a Russ Myer pic.

Because these sexual violent acts occur in the context of an 'unchallenged' narrative, they end up coming across as 'self indulgent' ie. there for the sake of 'shlock rather than shock' which can give the script an unintented immaturity.

The merciful bandit at the end is a great finish (especially for what he does) but we need more of this hehe and it should be imo intertwined within the story (ie the redemptive arc is spread.)

The misogynistic stems from the lack of resistance or influence Beatrice has as a character and a women. Because there is no resistance seemingly from the towns people or anyone bar the (fairly pathetic father) it all seems a little 'staged' hence where the impression of sadism can come from.

Great films have experimented with sexual violence issues, perversity and you name it - one of the most contraversial and a favourite of mine is the Italian film ww2 set 'Salo' - where in that (far FAR FAR more explicit than the scenes written here) works because it has something to say, and the characters (terrifying though they are) have substance. One of many great lines from that film is from the character of the 'Duke' We fascists are the only true anarchists...

Edited Again - to make sense!
 
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Wow! You are certainly getting some mixed reviews!
Some very explicit sexual scenes added to the tough hombre feel of the piece.
I'm a bit confused throughout the script though as to the status of Beatrice - alive / injured /dead - am I missing 'flashbacks inferred, but not defined or whot???
 
I really liked your script. Very dark - Wiley is just evil. I did wonder about the ending. I mean, why add the cowboy coming back through and helping Randolph? I think you could have just left it dark. Maybe I missed a point?

Also I liked your description of the dance - actually I thought the whole story seemed very visual.
 
Me again! I've just been reading what Bridget is saying and agree that, yeh, your script could lend more to the visual element than read through.
Good luck!
 
A dark tale indeed. I'm fine when the bad guys come out on top, because sometimes thats just the way it is.

I didn't really feel emotionally connected to any of the characters, maybe I didn't know enough about them to really feel for them.

So I think it works that the bad guys have the upperhand that fits the tone of the script. Bridget brought up the fact of "why have the coboy come back at all" and I agree.
I actually think it fits the tone of the script better if it just fades out with the Father dragging his daughter across the desert in a futile effort.

You gave me somethings to think about. Nice work, thanks for sharing your vision.
 
I agree, a dark tale and enjoyable in parts.

Not sure how I feel about the sex oriented violence here... not in a prudish way but rather I feel that it was more for shock value rather than, as lawrie put it, touching on the actual issues themselves.

But I did enjoy the storyline and thought it was well written and structured.

You certainly wove a dark tale that was, for the most part, effective.
 
Thanks for your responses. I’m glad many seemed to be taken by the read. Thanks to TimCollins, conlan, NJpage, Bridget, Lawriejaffa, Dark Elastic, and nounou! It all helps me out, so I'm very very grateful of your time, compliments, and criticisms. I'll focus on the criticisms:

Criticism 1:
"Shock over actual issues" - I see shock as the issue. In a state of shock, chaos reigns and people run or let down their weapons, they don't want to be shot, maimed, killed, and they let anything go. Wiley gets off expressing his dominance thru sexual and murderous violence, and people enter a state of paralysis. Who can still act?

Criticism 2:
"I did wonder about the ending" - The end shows two individuals who acted in the face of chaos: Charles and Beatrice. One acted against Wiley, and she is dead and fully disrespected. Charlie’s bad, and I don’t want that to be read necessarily as a redemptive moment. If he’s riding past them, he may as well give the old man some water and offer to bury Beatrice. He is very much a bade dude, but I wanted that point in there: some form of humanity exists within this point of chaos. He may be an outlaw, but he has respect for some things.

Criticism 3:
“Misogynistic stems from the lack of resistance or influence Beatrice has as a character” – She is the only character in the script who says “enough!” to Wiley. She runs off the horse, confronts him, ignores him, says “no” to him 3 times. She is disrespected, and at the mercy of a crazed lunatic, but I tried to write her as a hero who came on too late in her life.

A deeper exploration of the characters would be fun. I would like to spend more time on the language in the more difficult-themed scenes. I’m chagrined that this comes across as perversity for the sake of perversity to some, and I’d love to try a re-write sometime to flesh these ideas out more.

Thanks again, I look forward to reading more scripts and responses, and this is making me a stronger writer I feel.
 
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Yep I think the way you describe the scenes you perhaps don't sound like a neutral enough observer to this 'shock' but a bit of a cheerleader. From what you saying (if ive got it right) your wanting the shock to illustrate the chaos - a bit like say with 'High Plains Drifter' in that spaghetti style western (directed by clint eastwood) the town is cowardly, (and harbours some dark secrets of its own.) But anyway he comes into town, and with no opposition manages to rape a young woman that offends him.

But you see this occurs because the 'town is evil' basically. There is always an underlying reason that exists 'FOR' the shock to occur - otherwise its just tortureporn/titillating entertainment - thats how that element came across in yours. Also shocking events are only an expression of 'chaos' they don't happen by themselves. So its there in that chaos - of the towns peoples attitudes to protecting one of their own (or not) or a host of other reasons that your scripts meditation must lie.

I think definately the crits of the other points there can be resolved a bit through lending your script voice a more neutral stand point over the sexual violent scenes. I think also creating a narrative thread that lends more of a reason to these occurences.

I should just add that 'shocking' is easy weesy peesy :P it should be there to just add flavour to what you got going on under the hood ;)
 
Thanks for the conversation. I appreciate you taking your time.

"Shock and Awe are actions that create fears, dangers, and destruction that are incomprehensible to the people at large... [It's] the Pentagon’s code-name for a policy of deliberately killing the civilian population. The aim is to crush the will to resist. ” - Harlan K. Ullman, "Shock and Awe: Achieving Rapid Dominance."

If the U.S. government can have it be their main means of action, I just should be able to do it in a script. :) Shocking events are brought on by Wiley, they don't just happen by themselves, and it's all his expression towards not getting what he wants.

As Randolph says, "He always gets what he wants, and if he can't have you, he'll make your life and everyone around you a living hell. It's his way." We get thrown into the middle of Wiley not getting his way with Beatrice, he breaks down and elicits shock as a means of changing certain people to do what he wants and bend to his desires--however insane they may be. I don't think there should be hard and fast rules when shock should and shouldn't be used, and he uses this as a means of control, "to get enough gold to raise a family on," with Beatrice. Beatrice does rebel, she has another relationship, she spits at his feet, she runs away from Wiley. She instigates him from his perception.

That said, the second (or first) problem about me being a cheerleader for the violence. I tried to write the disturbing scenes with the same gusto and vividness as the dance scenes and the shoot-outs. If it came across as tasteless to you, I apologize, that was not my intent, and I will consider better word choice for the future.

Looking forward to reading your script soon! Working my way up the list.
 
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You brought up an interesting discussion with your script. Even though it's tasteless and goes pretty far, we keep on reading it till the end. Like Lawrie said, many films have experimented with it already, and the problem is, that if you don't try to say something with it that's obvious enough for the reader to understand, they will feel it's exploitation. I wouldn't say the script was 10 pages of exploitation, but some parts seemed to be, even if it's not what you intended.

Wiley was a real villain, but I think he needed a stronger antagonist. In my eyes he remains a flat character because he has no real conflicts, which is where his character would show more.

I did like some of the descriptions of the setting, they were very visual.
 
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Hey mate :) I'm all for shock and awe when appropriate haha ;) Yep tastelessness is something to consider with some of your words and scene settings. Remember if its rape - sexual assault etc you are hitting delicate notes. An unapolagetic / unsympathetic narrator can work but only if the audience / reader feels its justified.

I also know exactly how it feels to try and write and produce films of contraversial subject matter myself. In mine ive got a fair swell of atrocity that all occurs within a spaghetti (haggis hehe) western context - similar to fistful of dynamite. Even in that film there are scenes of genocide etc.

Funnily enough we find that easier actually than rape or detailed sexual molestation hehe - go figure eh! :)

I should add that my criticism doesnt mean overall that i hate the script!!! But its a point id like to make for your own benefit (and is also only my opinion one that may or will be totally contradicted by others.) As these things can often prove a 'distraction' to the highlights of your script and story (ie a word choice here or there.) I'm certainly not against magnificent sensationalism hehe :P

Oh and your posters cool too!
 
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