F3: Maximum F3

[Afterglow]

Dude, the F3 is a sexy beast wearing hot black leather pants and stiletto heels but I've already been stopped by the U.S. Secret Service twice and once photographed with a telephoto lens by one of those mofo's.

Now I'm on file.

And that was just with an A7S. Once on a slider outside the White House.

Also stopped and questioned by the Park Police on Roosevelt Island.

Nice chic, but just sayin'--I can't take her anywhere.

If I want permission to shoot in a restaurant for free I'm much more likely to get it if I don't show up with that beast.

Mystifying. I'm with the OP and don't understand what you're getting at here - unless it's something to do with size in which case the F3 is hardly a monster. Yes, it's bigger and more of a video camera than a DSLR. Other than that it is in camera terms old (2010?), so embarrassing in that respect? But most of the people I work with and for never stop to ask if what I'm shooting with is an F3/5/55/FS7, even on broadcast shoots.

Back on message, Grug, what's your shoulder set up for the F3?

 

[Viscount Omega]

Mystifying.

Nothing to do with being new. 1080p is awesome for me. 4K is good for cropping.

JFC. Yes, what I'm getting at is the size attracts attention. Unwanted attention.

"Hardly a monster"?

It's massive.

But if you're a D.P. member of a crew or larger production company, why would you even care?

You don't worry so much about locations.

If someone else were paying the bills I wouldn't care what camera they handed me.

:laugh:

 

[yoclay]

I agree.

I've upgraded from mine to a used Alexa EV, but held onto the F3.

The with the sLOG upgrade it's basically a poor mans HD F5 that you can pick up for peanuts...

Hey Harry, how do you find the F3 holds up against the Alexa EV ?
I find they cut very well together, but I haven't done any head to head comparisons.

 

[IronFilm]

Due to budget it was either the F3, or a Red One MX with only three 16GB CF cards (about 18 mins of recording before you are out of cards) and only 0.3, 0.6 and 0.9 NDs.

So practicality and the F3's superior dynamic range sealed the deal for it.

Ah I see! Easy choice ;-)

I agree.

I've upgraded from mine to a used Alexa EV, but held onto the F3.

The with the sLOG upgrade it's basically a poor mans HD F5 that you can pick up for peanuts...

And don't forget the F5 when originally released was only HD internal anyway.... !!

How much did you get your used Alexa for, how you are finding it?

Frankly, considering how little an F3 costs today on the used market, I am surprised that everyone doesn't own one. At the very least for the tremendous amount of work which is still for HD delivery or B-Cam. Frankly I would rather own 2 or 3 of these for the added coverage, than a single RED Weapon, Alexa or new Sony Venice. End of the day, a strong narrative is what counts and this camera does the job admirably in a wide variety of environments.

Thankfully not everyone has an F3, as if there was that much demand for it then the prices of an F3 would be pushed back up too high again! :-o

 

[Ben_Ericson]

I bough this camera after seeing what Ed David did with it. I really love the black magic pocket image, and this is really similar in my opinion. It is an easier image to grade from my experience. The internal NDs and 60p are really what I needed.

I am working on a skate film that is F3 and 16mm. I need to rig this camera small for follow camera stuff, so the video assist and d tap batteries ended up being perfect.

Just wanted to say, I am always very impressed by the images from this camera. If it had internal Pro Res, it would be near perfect for me. My next camera will probably be the C200 or C300ii, but the F3 has been great to me.

 

[Ben_Ericson]

Well, we're in the latter half of 2017 and I wouldn't have thought this would still be happening, but I'm out on set again with the F3 putting in the work on a little sci-fi film.

Would love to see some frames when the project is done. Are you shooting S-Log?

 

[NorBro]

I bough this camera after seeing what Ed David did with it. I really love the black magic pocket image, and this is really similar in my opinion. It is an easier image to grade from my experience. The internal NDs and 60p are really what I needed.

I am working on a skate film that is F3 and 16mm. I need to rig this camera small for follow camera stuff, so the video assist and d tap batteries ended up being perfect.

Just wanted to say, I am always very impressed by the images from this camera. If it had internal Pro Res, it would be near perfect for me. My next camera will probably be the C200 or C300ii, but the F3 has been great to me.

You should check out the BMMCC for some creative skate shots/angles.

No NDs, but internal 1080/60p ProRes HQ and RAW 3:1, which would indeed match beautifully with the F3.

 

[Ben_Ericson]

You should check out the BMMCC for some creative skate shots/angles.

No NDs, but internal 1080/60p ProRes HQ and RAW 3:1, which would indeed match beautifully with the F3.

Been thinking about getting one, especially after seeing the Mosaic Engineering IR/Aliasing filter. It's on my list. With the speed booster/aliasing filter it starts to add up.

 

[starcentral]

I've shot with the BMPCC over my F55 in certain situations, honestly an indispensable camera that everyone should own - even if only to drive over it with a truck while rolling. I'm also really interested in the aliasing filter but haven't really seen a lot of issue in my footage popup without it. Worst thing about the camera is the rolling shutter though. It's quite bad.

Now you guys are making me want to buy an F3 again.

 

[NorBro]

I've shot with the BMPCC over my F55 in certain situations, honestly an indispensable camera that everyone should own - even if only to drive over it with a truck while rolling. I'm also really interested in the aliasing filter but haven't really seen a lot of issue in my footage popup without it. Worst thing about the camera is the rolling shutter though. It's quite bad.

The BMPCC is the pocket...the BMMCC is the micro. It's pretty much the upgrade, but without a screen. The readout is a bit faster. It was actually supposed to have a global shutter in it but after a 1.5 year delay, BM said they just couldn't integrate it and keep the DR the same. Footage also looks a bit better than the pocket's.

 

[starcentral]

Hey what's a slip of a letter here or there amongst friends. :beer:

I could swear BMD released this without a recorder initially so I never paid attention anymore. Have I got that wrong too? Was there a recorder in the micro all along? Wow this definitely looks better than BMPCC ...

 

[NorBro]

The one without a recorder is the BMMSC, lol.

The BM Micro STUDIO camera.

Same body, fantastic UHD/24p image and super fast rolling shutter, but no log. Clips harshly, but very good for controlled lighting/studio.

 

[goodgoings]

I bough this camera after seeing what Ed David did with it. I really love the black magic pocket image, and this is really similar in my opinion. It is an easier image to grade from my experience. The internal NDs and 60p are really what I needed.

With the Video Assist, do you get record 60fps through HDMI?

 

[Harry Lime]

Hey Harry, how do you find the F3 holds up against the Alexa EV ?
I find they cut very well together, but I haven't done any head to head comparisons.

The most obvious difference is how the Alexa handles highlights and overexposure. The first time I pointed the camera at a window it was blatantly obvious. It behaves like film, which to me is what sets the Alexa apart from all other digital cameras.
Overall the Alexa tonal response feels like shooting film, which makes total sense since Arri took all they learned from their scanners and laser recorders and put it in the color science. The Alexa does a lot of subtle little things like caps saturation at a certain brightness level, which is probably one reason why skin looks so good. It's nice to be able to shoot Prores 444 straight to a SxS card without an external recorder and the Log C workflow is idiot proof. The single biggest drawback to the EV is the lack of internal ND filters, but I ended up getting the Arri Internal Filter Module. It's a bit of a hassle, but solves that problem. The other drawback is that the Alexa EV is a tank. The body with the EVF is about 18lbs of metal. Fully assembled and sitting on a head and Ronford sticks I'm clocking in at about 60lbs. It really is a like a film camera! One other problem is that it sucks down batteries. You need to bring a lot of batteries to a shoot. And I mean a lot. Personally I couldn't give a hoot that the camera isn't 4k. It looks terrific and ArriRAW shot with good lenses is very sharp. Sharper than a lot of the output from higher resolution cameras that compress their footage.

I always felt that the F3 did a nice job with highlights. Dynamic range has also always been really impressive. IMO the F3 feels less digital to me than a lot of other cameras. Color accuracy from the F3 has always been excellent. I also wish it locked saturation like the Alexa does, but there are ways to fake that. I think the worst I can say about the F3 is that the tonal response feels a little like video, but you can wrestle it into shape. The 10bit 444 output looks great. I've only seen it get 'thin' on a few occasions and that can be solved by adding a little fill and bringing it down in the DI. Low light with the F3 still is very, very impressive. But that is to be expected given that's it's roughly 2.3k on a S35 sensor. Post workflow is not as simple as with the Alexa, but after a lot of research I have something figured out that works for me. I recommend ACES, which has given me the best results so far. I like the weight of the F3 (circa 5lbs). The ergonomics are a little weird. It's like a giant Handicam, but has a wide selection of professional ports (SDI, HDMI etc), the big beefy FZ mount etc. Battery life is great. The worst thing about he F3 is the weak internal codec. You really need an external recorder and the slog upgrade which totally transforms the camera into an entirely different beast. I still think it's one of the best HD cameras I have ever seen.

 

[Harry Lime]

Ah I see! Easy choice ;-)



And don't forget the F5 when originally released was only HD internal anyway.... !!

How much did you get your used Alexa for, how you are finding it?



Thankfully not everyone has an F3, as if there was that much demand for it then the prices of an F3 would be pushed back up too high again! :-o

I got a pretty good deal on it. They are out there for well under $20k. You just need to look until you find one that wasn't in a rental house for the past 6-7 years and is coming form a reputable source.
I'm guessing we will see serious drop in price if Arri shows something new at IBC and people start to sell off to upgrade.

Basically the choice was a new used car or the Alexa. Well, my car still runs and I didn't have an Alexa...

 

[Ben_Ericson]

With the Video Assist, do you get record 60fps through HDMI?

Yes, but you need the 444 upgrade. Also, for some reason the bottom pixel line flickers, so 60p has to be cropped to 100.5 percent. Weird bug. Other than that, the recorder has been excellent.

Going to bring this up as well. Anyone using s-log, there is a color difference between s-log output mode, and video output/s-log. The video mode, profile set to s-log is much more accurate than the s-log/color profile bypass mode.

 

[Grug]

Don't often see Cinetape on an F3!

Would you be so kind as to show us a shot of the mounting mechanism or rail bits and such for your Gratical Eye on the F3. Still using mine.

Is that a Teradek Bolt hanging off the rear of the top handle? Guess the Odyssey is on the AC side of the camera. I usually just jam the cameras with timecode from my 633 at several points throughout the day. What timecode box are you using?

This will hopefully give you a better idea of the setup:

- I mount everything with either 15mm rods and spigots, or velcro (for things like timecode boxes or wireless audio receivers). My AC preferred using his magic arm for the Odyssey, so he switched that in.

- I use a Berkey Systems top handle, which is brilliant because it has 15mm mounting points both front and back, as well as on the riser (that one holds the Gratical).

- Teradek is mounted off the back via a 15mm spigot (nice and neat), and the range finder we simply put on one of the mini ball head things I keep in my odds and sods box.

- Timecode was via Tentacle sync. It's nice and neat, we'd had it on the last feature I shot, and it seemed to work well both then and now.

Would love to see some frames when the project is done. Are you shooting S-Log?

I'll certainly post some up. We're shooting SLOG in 10-bit 4:4:4 to Prores XQ.

 

[Sttratos]

Grug, what was your rationale to get a F3 over a FS700? I think they look very similar but the FS700 gives you HFR and also 4K if you really need. You must rig both of them out with EVFs etc and use a 7Q anyway. Was the F3 still much cheaper when yo got it or you are just a F3 fan? I sold my F3 when I sold the FS7.

 

[Guest]

As much as I love the older cameras, it is always hard to go back. Even to a f35. All the new cameras are so flexible with either size or low light.

I probably hate on new cameras more than anyone here, but every time I look back at footage shot on old cameras, I am reminded by the progress being made. the F3 feels like the last of an era. Back when pro and consumer were bleeding into each other, and the f3 was a last attempt at the old prosumer crossover market. cameras don't hold value like that anymore. Either cheap enough to replace, or expensive enough to be out of reach. Sony makes some really good cameras, and have been the most consistently good camera manufacture out there. Had it not been for Arri's image quality (those highlights), or Red's entry level pricing, or the Canon dslr thing, maybe they would still be.

 

[Ben_Ericson]

Grug, what was your rationale to get a F3 over a FS700? I think they look very similar but the FS700 gives you HFR and also 4K if you really need. You must rig both of them out with EVFs etc and use a 7Q anyway. Was the F3 still much cheaper when yo got it or you are just a F3 fan? I sold my F3 when I sold the FS7.

For me, it was the Sony FS700 color and noise. I film a lot of sports stuff, mostly skateboarding. That camera is really popular with those guys but the color has always looked off to me. The ergonomics of the FS700 were also very poor in my opinion. 4K/120 is really nice, but I find the F3 image so beautiful.

The FS700r/4k ready is cheap right now though.