Matte box suggestions for Canon 7D?
- Thread starter Rick Rock
- Start date
Boz
Well-known member
Heh. No doubt. There are people here on the list with full Red One rigs. They also seem to buy every camera that comes out. I understand though, most are pros who make a living from this stuff, so cameras are a business expense. Must be nice!
Back to Matte boxes; the CaVision stuff looks like the most affordable option. I'm not sure about build quality though, having never seen one first hand. Studio4's Indi Mattebox looks promising as well: http://www.indifocus.com/products_indimattepro.htm
Eddy Robinson
Well-known member
Matte boxes have their benefits, but it might be more economical to rent - if you're getting some lights, stands, flags, a dolly, and enough stuff to fill a van you may well be able to wangle one for cheap or free.
It's not something you will use every day, and like a dolly it's the sort of thing that attracts attention, whereas the lens hood won't, allowing you to much more latitude in locations which might tolerate or ignore photography but not video. Even on fully budgeted film shoots I have very often seen light spill problems solved with the aid of black wrap.
It's not something you will use every day, and like a dolly it's the sort of thing that attracts attention, whereas the lens hood won't, allowing you to much more latitude in locations which might tolerate or ignore photography but not video. Even on fully budgeted film shoots I have very often seen light spill problems solved with the aid of black wrap.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
KeithAndrews.TV
Well-known member
Like usual you have to consider all of the parts that make a complete package. In the same way you can't buy a 5D, or 7D and start shooting without a lens, it doesn't make much sense buying a matte box if you aren't going to use any filters. For the cost of a Genus matte box alone, you could have a Cavision matte box, rails and several large glass filter.
Michael Olsen
Veteran
Well done, sir. That could definitely be worth looking at...
Jean Dodge
Active member
That genus mattebox from B+H is out of stock. Also, is it the correct height for your rails? The bracket doesn't look to be adjustable to me.
One distinct advantage of a mattebox over lens hoods is the hope that your investment covers the filtration for all the lenses you own and might rent with whatever camera body you use movig into the future. In film-only days most DPs owned their own set of filters -and most still do, but the kit is more basic now since most color correction is done in post. Still the leaves close up diopters, effects softening and diffusing filters, neutral density solid a graduated filters and others like polarizers and whatever else you might need - like an optical flat that simply protects the front element from dust or splatter.
A mattebox starts to pay itself off when you find yourself shooting all day with lenses of different barrel sizes, constantly changing. A swing-away is great then... Zacuto has a swing away bracket that turns a fixed one into a swing away, but like everything they sell it is very well machined and so not cheap. A mattebox also allows the placement of strong backlight that is flagged well if you use the sides and an eyebrow. The other handy tool is a french flag, which is another item/expense to take into account when designing a digital cinematography rig.
In the field it is true that the mattebox and an eyebrow cover 80% of your needs. A mattebox with sides is nice when you can get it but a cheaper one, without sides and a french flag usually can get the job done since often the stray light is coming from one specific source on set.
Covering the back of the mattebox is another issue. Ideally, like on Arriflex units you have a round stage at the back of a mattebox for large round filters such as a 138mm round - that way with a two stage mattebox you could take care of polarizing this way and leave the two front stages for effects filters - like a softening pro-mist and then a graduated ND that only blocks the bright sky and not the dark colored earth, for example. This round stage then has a rubber-step down/ accordian effect that terminates in a ring that fits your prime set (again ideally all the same barrel size) and your zoom/s, which are usually different barrel size. when this isnt the case - assitants employ "donuts" which are just a ring cut from neoprene like a computer mouse pad and fitted to the end of the lens so stray light cant come frmo behind and strike the filter, but the lens barrel can still rotate freely for follow focus.
Having said all that, I still don't see a mattebox as essential to the majority of shooters. It just depends on how far you want to take all this. Once you commit to a follow focus unit of some sort you are building a system with rods anyway so it seems to start to make sense to look into getting the right mattebox that you will hang onto.
But again, remember it mostly makes sense if you have a lot of prime lenses of different thread/barrel sizes and only want to invest in one set of really decent filters in 4x4 size. If you are shooting with one zoom most of the time, or a zoom and one wide angle, stick with lens hoods and a round filter and invest in a good french flag that you can use like an eyebrow when you start needing it. The canon reversing zooms, that is the ones where the barrel gets LONGER as the focal length gets wider benefit greatly from this design when it comes to the effectiveness of the lens hood - it can be designed in such a way as to cover the most when you need it.
One distinct advantage of a mattebox over lens hoods is the hope that your investment covers the filtration for all the lenses you own and might rent with whatever camera body you use movig into the future. In film-only days most DPs owned their own set of filters -and most still do, but the kit is more basic now since most color correction is done in post. Still the leaves close up diopters, effects softening and diffusing filters, neutral density solid a graduated filters and others like polarizers and whatever else you might need - like an optical flat that simply protects the front element from dust or splatter.
A mattebox starts to pay itself off when you find yourself shooting all day with lenses of different barrel sizes, constantly changing. A swing-away is great then... Zacuto has a swing away bracket that turns a fixed one into a swing away, but like everything they sell it is very well machined and so not cheap. A mattebox also allows the placement of strong backlight that is flagged well if you use the sides and an eyebrow. The other handy tool is a french flag, which is another item/expense to take into account when designing a digital cinematography rig.
In the field it is true that the mattebox and an eyebrow cover 80% of your needs. A mattebox with sides is nice when you can get it but a cheaper one, without sides and a french flag usually can get the job done since often the stray light is coming from one specific source on set.
Covering the back of the mattebox is another issue. Ideally, like on Arriflex units you have a round stage at the back of a mattebox for large round filters such as a 138mm round - that way with a two stage mattebox you could take care of polarizing this way and leave the two front stages for effects filters - like a softening pro-mist and then a graduated ND that only blocks the bright sky and not the dark colored earth, for example. This round stage then has a rubber-step down/ accordian effect that terminates in a ring that fits your prime set (again ideally all the same barrel size) and your zoom/s, which are usually different barrel size. when this isnt the case - assitants employ "donuts" which are just a ring cut from neoprene like a computer mouse pad and fitted to the end of the lens so stray light cant come frmo behind and strike the filter, but the lens barrel can still rotate freely for follow focus.
Having said all that, I still don't see a mattebox as essential to the majority of shooters. It just depends on how far you want to take all this. Once you commit to a follow focus unit of some sort you are building a system with rods anyway so it seems to start to make sense to look into getting the right mattebox that you will hang onto.
But again, remember it mostly makes sense if you have a lot of prime lenses of different thread/barrel sizes and only want to invest in one set of really decent filters in 4x4 size. If you are shooting with one zoom most of the time, or a zoom and one wide angle, stick with lens hoods and a round filter and invest in a good french flag that you can use like an eyebrow when you start needing it. The canon reversing zooms, that is the ones where the barrel gets LONGER as the focal length gets wider benefit greatly from this design when it comes to the effectiveness of the lens hood - it can be designed in such a way as to cover the most when you need it.
robmneilson
Veteran
I would STRONGLY urge people to avoid using the cavision mattebox! I loathed the one that I had...the french flag never stayed up, the filter trays were of poor quality and it could just not stand up to the abuse that I gave it.
Luckilly I bought an old arri mattebox on ebay for a very cheap price. It's 20 years old, but looks and works better than my one year old Cavision!
Luckilly I bought an old arri mattebox on ebay for a very cheap price. It's 20 years old, but looks and works better than my one year old Cavision!
Boz
Well-known member
Thanks for the detailed description of Matte boxes and how they work, Jean. Having never personally used one before I found the information very helpful.
Rob, thanks for the headsup on the CaVision matte box. Since I can't see/use most of this gear in advance of buying it, it's good to know what's crap.
Anyone tried the IndiMatte matte box? Looks promising at a decent price:
http://www.indifocus.com/products_indimattepro.htm
Rob, thanks for the headsup on the CaVision matte box. Since I can't see/use most of this gear in advance of buying it, it's good to know what's crap.
Anyone tried the IndiMatte matte box? Looks promising at a decent price:
http://www.indifocus.com/products_indimattepro.htm
robmneilson
Veteran
Definetly try searching ebay...I got my new (old) arri mattebox for 250 bucks!
Jean Dantes
Well-known member
Damn, just when I thought I'd found a bargin in the Cavision.
Why are matte boxes so damn exspensive? I think there is definitely something wrong with the way they're priced. Some sort of monopoly going on here with the big players...
Why are matte boxes so damn exspensive? I think there is definitely something wrong with the way they're priced. Some sort of monopoly going on here with the big players...
Michael Olsen
Veteran
I think it has to do with the way they are cut from the steel or aluminum stock. There must be a lot of unavoidable waste involved. Of course, one can get a plastic mattebox...and another...and another...
open-heart burglary
Member
What about these matte boxes.
http://www.geardear.com/
has anybody here used them or heard anything about them. I like the modular aspect of them. And you can add more filter stages if you need them and replace parts easily.
http://www.geardear.com/
has anybody here used them or heard anything about them. I like the modular aspect of them. And you can add more filter stages if you need them and replace parts easily.
Shawn Murphy
Well-known member
Just thought I would mention that I'm selling a FORMATT FM-500 MATTE BOX w/72mm adapter:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=182033
And a Schneider Optics 4x4 True-Pol Polarizer:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=181711
~Shawn
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=182033
And a Schneider Optics 4x4 True-Pol Polarizer:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=181711
~Shawn
pressphotographer
Member
All matteboxes are not the same. Wasted a lot of cash along the way. I've got the following:
Formatt FM500 - hated it, clip on only, span around a lot, widest lens usable about a 28mm.
Cinetactics HD velcro on mattebox - hated it, great idea but in reality a PITA to get on and off and keep in position. Widest lens about 24mm.
Cinevate MB (original version) - quite well made but didn't give very wide angle coverage, was height adjustable. Not tried the new one but it looks pretty big to me.
Redrockmicro MB - As I've said before the Redrockmicro is great but I only really use it on set as its not very portable and quite heavy, if you don't do any run and gun ever then its a good option. Good value for money. I'm keeping this one.
Genus GWMC - OK, I'm going to pin my colours to the mast as a Genus mattebox boy. I finally settled on this one and am very happy with it. It allows proper wide angle coverage to almost 17mm on a 5DmkII for video (stills cut off at corners) , its beautifully put together but still light weight enough to run around with. I keep it in my bag the whole time. It may be expensive compared to some of the others mentioned but then its professional kit that meet my criteria, so to me its good value. I make my living from video and most of the other matteboxes mentioned here just don't cut it for me.
Oh and be careful there are 2 versions of the Genus Mattebox, the older one is the one on B+H I think and it is not as wide angle, you want the GWMC for that.
Dan
Formatt FM500 - hated it, clip on only, span around a lot, widest lens usable about a 28mm.
Cinetactics HD velcro on mattebox - hated it, great idea but in reality a PITA to get on and off and keep in position. Widest lens about 24mm.
Cinevate MB (original version) - quite well made but didn't give very wide angle coverage, was height adjustable. Not tried the new one but it looks pretty big to me.
Redrockmicro MB - As I've said before the Redrockmicro is great but I only really use it on set as its not very portable and quite heavy, if you don't do any run and gun ever then its a good option. Good value for money. I'm keeping this one.
Genus GWMC - OK, I'm going to pin my colours to the mast as a Genus mattebox boy. I finally settled on this one and am very happy with it. It allows proper wide angle coverage to almost 17mm on a 5DmkII for video (stills cut off at corners) , its beautifully put together but still light weight enough to run around with. I keep it in my bag the whole time. It may be expensive compared to some of the others mentioned but then its professional kit that meet my criteria, so to me its good value. I make my living from video and most of the other matteboxes mentioned here just don't cut it for me.
Oh and be careful there are 2 versions of the Genus Mattebox, the older one is the one on B+H I think and it is not as wide angle, you want the GWMC for that.
Dan
Attachments
$190. Has filter holders, metal flags etc.
http://dvcity.com/dve/product_info.php?cPath=70&products_id=188
you can then purchase a rail mount for it on the same site.
http://dvcity.com/dve/product_info.php?cPath=70&products_id=188
you can then purchase a rail mount for it on the same site.
Boz
Well-known member
Looks good except I see zero support for a rails system. I don't know if I want 2 lbs hanging off the end of my lens with no support.
Thanks for the info! It's good to know the pro's and con's of each piece of gear. Hmm... I may need to take a trip to Samys in LA to see if I can try some of these matte boxes first hand before buying. I'd hate to drop $300 - $700 and end up with something I'm not happy with.