Martial Arts video shot on the 7D - my first time playing with 60p on these cameras

First off to kjdoyle1, I've been editing for over 4 years professionally and I'm an FCP instructor at a prominent vocational school in Illinois. I didn't appreciate that working on school projects comment but if it wasn't aimed at me or anyone else here, I apologize for being upset. Overall, when I provided my criticism of this piece I did my best not to be mean but honest. The music doesn't completely ruin the video but like they said there is no video without audio. Graham, you are probably an incredibly talented filmmaker and you just got a client who put you in a tough situation creatively. I apologize if my criticism was mean in anyway but would you rather have a fool praise you or seasoned veteran tell you like it is and give you tips to improve your craft? I wish you good luck on your future projects and look forward to seeing what you come up with when the client isn't difficult. Peace
 
Anyway, I'd like to see the 30-second version of this! Edit the music, rather than letting it dictate your video. E.g., now it's 47 seconds before anyone throws a punch. Way too long for people to be circling in slow motion. Then each slow section of music has long slow-motion segments of video where, basically, nothing happens. Why are there many long slow hugs in the middle of the video? Only answer... 'cause the song has a long slow middle section.

I think you have enough material here for a tight 30-second piece. Do it, and let us see!

Also, you introduced this as a potential portfolio piece... that makes a lot of the advice here even better! Meaning, even if the client wants it edited shot-by-shot to match his favorite piece of music, that's NOT what you necessarily will put into your portfolio. You often want to tighten up pieces to YOUR standards if YOUR vision is what you're trying to portray to potential clients. No-one is impressed by portfolio pieces that need explanations about why they are sub-par.... everything in your portfolio should present you at your best, with no qualifications needed.
 
Mmka1985, you never offended me. It's really just cheapass that set me off. Seriously, thank you all for your criticisms. They are valuable to me and I look forward to posting my next project.

Again regarding the music, I was really excited to use Pain by Three Days Grace. Was bummed when the client had his own thoughts on music selection.

I just received this message from the client today. This is the woman who hired me, not the owner of the dojo (picky music guy). This lady wanted to move forward with Pain.

The video has gotten a lot of attention this past weekend! We sent it out to all the folks in the video, and both Andre' and I posted it on our facebook pages. Several of our friends have re posted to their own page.

Comments include how professional it looks (of course) and how good everyone looks : ) Some people that haven't come down to spar in awhile have been inspired to return. The downside is, I can't get that damn song out of my head! I can only imagine what it was like for you when you were editing! I've been talking up your capabilities and have encouraged folks to go to your website to view more of your work.
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ullanta said:
Why are there many long slow hugs in the middle of the video? Only answer... 'cause the song has a long slow middle section.
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Actually I have another answer for you. It was important to include this because people who are not familiar with martial arts might be scarred off because it looks like they're beating each other. Showing the hugs let's them know that it's all good fun. I knew from the beginning I would need to incorporate this footage somewhere and I originally planned to do that at the end somehow but the bridge turned out to be the perfect spot for it.

I have had two people who do martial arts actually thank me for including this part because it shows the camaraderie and fun of sparring.
 
Right... I understand why there are hugs. What I'm saying that the timing (when and how long) was dictated by the song, not by the video flow or by the needs of the client. Of course this is opinion... if you really think the bridge was the perfect spot and length for it, so be it... but it doesn't seem that way to me. Some of the bridge could be moved to near the end, so that you have a shorter section of hugs closer to the end (say, right before conclluding with a quick burst of energy and the camera fall), which to me makes more sense and isn't as tedious. Don't be constrained by the music! Edit it to suit your needs.
 
You're absolutely right. I let the music dictate the edit. It's wise to do it the other way around and craft the music to support the edit.

I have to say that I do enjoy chopping up a song to suit my needs but I didn't do that at all this time. Good point.
 
Graham King said:
Coming to an agreement with the client on the music was a long and painful process. I really wanted to go with Pain by Three Days Grace. The owner wasn't feeling it and he wanted Mama Said Knock You Out but I'm just not an old school hip hop fan. Then he wanted Black Eyed Peas and I said no can do.

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Maybe you need to reconsider your attitude towards clients? If my client likes f'in folklore music on his video I'll use it! On another note, for a paid (commercial) job using commercial music (without licensing)...? Really?
 
Okay I didn't actually say "no can do". I put it in very gracious terms. I strive for excellent customer service.

I really want to vibe with the music on any project I'm working on. That way I'll be really passionate about the edit. I'm a fan of a lot of different kinds of music so coming to an agreement with a client is usually not a problem. That said, if a client insists on a particular song, I will go with it and I will do my absolute best. But it never hurts to ask if they're willing to consider other songs, because they usually are.

In terms of the copyright issue, I always tell my clients, using unlicensed music is a copyright violation. Then I let them decide what they want to do.
 
youngindiefilms said:
Maybe you need to reconsider your attitude towards clients? If my client likes f'in folklore music on his video I'll use it! On another note, for a paid (commercial) job using commercial music (without licensing)...? Really?
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What's wrong with folklore?!?!?!?


In terms of the copyright issue, I always tell my clients, using unlicensed music is a copyright violation. Then I let them decide what they want to do.
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That may be so, but YOU have posted it illegally, here, at least.
 
Being a martial artist and a filmmaker. I thought this was really pretty darn good visually and especially in terms of showing sparring a variety of different levels. This certainly isn't a walk in the park kind of sparring, they do get into it and you nicely reflected that. You did however seem to loose a bit of perspective after you asked for criticsm and then you got it. That's the best thing about DVXuser and one that you can't take too personally, and I've done it in the past. People have all different skill sets, tastes and opinions.. however unfounded. Make friends and grow in appreciate of each person as a unique filmmaker and you'll add to the community. My skills, jobs, and friendshiped made have made this the a great place to creatively network.

As far as the music, I'd have to give it a thumbs down because you don't own the rights to it. You and your client are better off using a piece that's royalty free and then you can distribute it as you own, and in this capacity you'd be only able to use it closed-circuit and or for promo purposes... which maybe is fine enough for the project..


Cheers and keep it up. I think you next avenue is to persue an instruction series with them and then you can make some money. Control the distribution if they don't give you a lot of cash up front, and or get cash and a backend. there's a lot of avenues for cash to be made. I've done maybe 25 martial arts videos and it's been a good experience...
 
Okay okay, maybe I was a little sensitive. I just thought some phrasing wasn't terribly constructive. I'm over it. Let's put this baby to bed.

Glad you enjoyed the video Justyn. I am taking all comments into account, especially those regarding unlicensed music.
 
Dear Graham,

You're clearly reading way too far into what I said and lashing out with an overdramatic flair. Making a video and watching a movie are two entirely different things. You listed a number of musical selections which have nothing to do with martial arts films and are rather cheesy in and of themselves. Keeping the video exciting by trimming the fat serves the client better, something you should be ethically obligated to tell him since he clearly has no idea what he needs. Oh, and smart guy, you might want to read the thing you quoted which said "Your musical selectionS", as in every song you suggested to the client.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you and I don't have to baby my words for you. Frankly, if you can't take "intense" criticism, you're in the wrong industry. You're getting highly defensive while languishing over how bad the experience has been on dvxuser. I'd make the case that so called professionals on other forums are doing absolutely nothing for you by not cutting to the chase. I definitively wrapped my commentary by pointing out that everyone has room to grow (completely positive) after succinctly suggesting everything that would make your video better (while actually complementing your shooting). Feel free to PM me a thank you after you make those changes. Well, since you resorted to name calling, don't bother. And if you felt I was rather too harsh with you, well the reality is that I hate when people ask for criticism and then get defensive which didn't even take you until page 2.

@Nuno My username is a joke and was a reference to my blog made before I realized how many pros were on this site. I'd be happy to change it to my real name, but the forum rules dictate that I have to have a serious reason to do so and I don't.
 
ullanta said:
What's wrong with folklore?!?!?!?
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haha... good point actually... let me specify... I should have said "German folklore music".. as I'm German and German "Volksmusic"... is too much to take for any sane person :) Hope that clarifies... anyway it's just my personal opinion and dislike of that kind of music.. should have said that earlier.
 
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