Martial Arts video shot on the 7D - my first time playing with 60p on these cameras

Graham King

Graham King

Well-known member
I got a minuscule amount of money to shoot a video of a sparring session at a local dojo. Figured it was a perfect time to bust out with some 60p and the glidecam. I poured my heart into the edit hoping to end up with a nice portfolio piece. Let me know what you think!

 
I liked the visuals but I felt the song didn't fit the context of your subject. I know music is objective but I felt a hit Katy Perry song didn't fit her. Maybe try a song that makes you want to take action. That's my only suggestion
 
Coming to an agreement with the client on the music was a long and painful process. I really wanted to go with Pain by Three Days Grace. The owner wasn't feeling it and he wanted Mama Said Knock You Out but I'm just not an old school hip hop fan. Then he wanted Black Eyed Peas and I said no can do.

Anyway we went back and forth many times and while E.T. was not my first choice, I am happy with it. I feel like the lyrics sometime support the visuals and sometimes create a juxtaposition. Most importantly, it has the tempo changes that I needed for the edit.

If it wasn't Katy Perry and it wasn't a pop hit, would you still be opposed to it?
 
I agree with mmka1985 about the music killing this piece - the visuals were cool, but I couldn't sit through an entire song that didn't fit. I'd rather watch a short highlight clip of this muted. What is wrong with Black Eyed Peas? Surely there were other choices beside what you mention above?
 
Like I said, difficult client. We went back and forth many times and I offered a lot of good suggestions. Here's a list of songs I suggested in one email:

Muse - Uprising
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Dani California
My Chemical Romance - Sing
Survivor - Eye of the Tiger
Nina Simone & Felix Da Housecat - Sinnerman
Hans Zimmer - Why So Serious?
Hans Zimmer - The Kraken
Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit
Europe - The Final Countdown
 
That sux, man. I know and understand the frustration of satisfying a client. Too many stories to explain. Hopefully, you don't have more difficult clients in the future.
 
Also, I'm a fan of the song but after seeing the music video for it, it became hard for me to see it used in another context then describing someone who is different or an alien. When I have to select music, I try to find a song, pop or not, that comes close to or exactly fits the context of my subject. Unfortunately, you didn't have that opposition. Like I said before, I hope you are able to find clients that let you exercise more creative control on all aspects of the edit.
 
Hmm.. seems way too long, and truing to hard to fit the music. I like the look of the video, and lots of what you've done, but you could cut this down to 30 seconds and have a better product. The sparring is not interesting or impressive enough for the length. Edit the video and the music down for a tighter piece!

Also... just to mention... not sure where this video is going, but you should consider music that you actually have the right to use...? And, I wouldn't mind a little bit of fight sound mixed in.
 
Wow intense criticism on this forum. Not interesting or impressive enough? Music kills this piece? Haha okay sorry.
 
Those aren't exactly intense criticisms. It's boring because it's long and the music is really, really bad. How does the selection fit the theme of the video? Why would you think martial arts and pop music fit together? Maybe you've never seen a martial arts movie. Your musical selections indicate that you're far more interested in your own tastes than satisfying the client, which is fine in some cases, but you're hearing from your peers that you're wrong as well. It couldn't hurt to take that at face value. I agree with others that the shooting isn't bad, but you need to get WAY leaner with your clip selections. Go for the serious fighters and lose the kids and old people. Slug it onto a 30 second orchestrated piece and call it a promo. And take the criticisms as a positive thing. We all have room to grow in our craft or we wouldn't be dicking around on internet forums.

One last note:
The Final Countdown? Seriously? The song is considered a joke because it was abused by Arrested Development which abused it because the song was a joke in the first place. No one would take it seriously if you're trying to ramp up intensity.
 
cheapass said:
the music is really, really bad
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Your thoughts on the song are purely your opinion. I can't argue with that but why hate on someone's project because you don't like the music? Okay, half the people hate the song, half the people love it (none on this forum apparently).

cheapass said:
Maybe you've never seen a martial arts movie.
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Did the title of the thread tell you that I just shot a freakin' martial arts movie?

cheapass said:
Your musical selections indicate that you're far more interested in your own tastes than satisfying the client.
Click to expand...
The client picked the song. Read the thread smart guy.

cheapass said:
Go for the serious fighters and lose the kids and old people.
Click to expand...

Including the kids and old people, as well as the overweight, is important to the client because he wants people to know that all kinds of folks are welcome through his doors.

cheapass said:
And take the criticisms as a positive thing.
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Obviously, I came here and posted this to receive criticism. But there's a way to say things that doesn't make you sound like a douche. This skill eludes you.
 
With a list of songs that wasn't that bad, how on hearth did this film end up with Katy Perry...? It seems to me that you got lost in wonder with your glidecam and dissed to find the best way to shoot people training martial arts, seems like you wanted to shoot them like they were on a ballet, hence the floating camera and slow mo, but the people are not really making any gracious or grandiose moves, so it doesn't really work (for me) and then the song just cracks me up... sorry but that was a very unfortunate choice. Also, if you are posting your work don't get "touchy" when people voice their opinions, the video its not that great, my friend. But don't worry, criticism will only make you stronger, and will make you a better film maker, and there fore make a better end product for your clients...
 
I'm guessing we have a lot of young people commenting on this who are used to school projects. When you need to make a living, you need to do what the client asks for, even though you might have a different creative vision. From what he said, Graham clearly had to let the client help pick the song. Not ideal, but the song works well enough.

The most important question (which nobody asked) is what is the purpose of the piece. Film is a communications tool and the only way to judge a video is to understand what its purpose is. Maybe the business owner knows that the majority of his customers listen to pop music and are huge Katy Perry fans. Same goes for your comments on length. How can you judge that if you don't know what the purpose is? A briefer edit would be ideal for a commercial, but who said this was a commercial? Maybe it is to show to a class, the same class in the video, in order to get them excited about a class they have completed. Or maybe it's for new people who want to join the class but want to see more before they commit. In that case a longer edit might fit. Or maybe it's just going to be playing in the background of the waiting area in which case length is important so that you're not looping a 15-second spot.

Criticism is very important but you need to listen more before you speak guys.

That said...Graham, I thought the camera work was great. Good use of 60p and Glidecam. Images were crisp and had nice color. The only constructive thing I could say is the whole thing is pretty much shot in medium. I would throw in some wide shots and really tight shots. You could also shoot some shots of just feet bouncing on the mat as they spar or tights of a fist coming from out of frame and then making contact. Otherwise I think it's a great first dojo video.
 
kjdoyle1 you are guessing wrong. I do my living by directing commercials for eight years now, and funny enough, my reaction to this video is no different from the majority of the people here, including you. Telling a director where to put the camera is as negative (and useless) criticism as anything else. In fact, Graham is very lucky to be living and working in a time where he can post his work for strangers to criticize, without any compassion or friendly intentions. And that is gold. You certainly won't grow as a person or as a film maker by only accepting positive and friendly criticism by your friends. I don't need a PHd to understand what this film is for, in fact, that's the point! It should entertain you, seduce you to now more about the place, not to leave you indiferent or irritated by a teenage pop song...
 
I posted this video in about five different places and in every place I received criticism on this video in several areas including music, length, shot selection, motion blur, and other things. I asked for criticism and I got it! And I'm happy about that! And I responded to many of those people thanking them for their comments.

What I wasn't happy about was how some people on this particular forum were rude with their feedback. I didn't find that anywhere else. Maybe that's just the culture at dvxuser.

It doesn't matter that we're strangers and we're not friends. When I have criticism for someone on the Internet whom I've never met, I still do what the women in my life taught me to do and start it off in a positive way. Hey great job on this video... what I think you could have done differently is... keep it up, looking forward to seeing more of your work. That's just the courtesy I extend to my fellow filmmaker.

Nuno, I saw your latest film and it was awesome. You're a great writer and director. But you can be critical of other's work without being condescending. And cheapass was just being an outright jerk. He tried to make me feel stupid because he has some knowledge about some little known band who was hot in the 90's. All he accomplished was to make himself look like a jerk. And you look bad, Nuno, for backing him up.
 
Graham, I didn't back anyone up. Also how can you be annoyed at someone who calls himself cheapass... I barely read through the posts as I was only interested in giving you my feedback. My point is that if you want to succeed in this business you have to develop a thick skin. Believe me, people are brutal! And this is nothing compared to some of the **** I have been through with some of my clients in the past. You have to be resilient, trust yourself, and above all be confident in your choices. Take everything with simplicity, that will make your life easier. The moment you start to feel stronger and more "immune" to criticism is the moment you became a stronger person and a better film maker. But you have to earn that, it won't come easy. You will make a lot of stinkers, I know I did, everyone you might adore and idolize surely did! The "secret" is not to take it too seriously. Work hard, work harder, and you'll eventually be rewarded with praise and love for your efforts.

Keep your head up, for highs and lows!
 
Graham... you asked for criticism, and got a lot of good criticism. Don't take it personally. The "charm" of DVXUser is that there are indeed a number of skilled professionals here, who are short on time but willing to help. That means answers will sometimes be lacking in such niceties as always starting on a positive note... but I think you'll find that post-for-post you get a lot more actually useful advice here than on most forums.

Now, yes, it was clear to me that the client needs the variety of people and skill levels you have represented, but I still hold that the material you have is not interesting or skilled enough for the length of the video. Cut it down to 30 seconds, keep the absolute most competent-looking segments of the various types of people. Look around at successful commercials or promos... noone (whose not selling safety devices!) shows, say, elderly people looking frail and incompetent. Nobody shows them banging theit scooters into walls or not knowing how to drive them properly. They don't show beginners struggling with their exercise miracles, or non-chefs botching meals with their new slicerdicer. You have a lot of material in your video showing inexperienced people who don't seem to be learning well. You need to show inexperienced people who DO seem to be learning well, or you're doing your client a disservice. So when I say sparring is uninteresting and not skilled enough, I mean you need to reshoot or re-edit in such a way that it looks like a fun, interesting place where people learn important skills. Often that means a very high shooting ratio - much more time shooting, or much shorter final product.
 
Ullanta, thanks for your comments. I agree with much of what you said. Admittedly, I went in there with the attitude that I'm going to just shoot around for two hours and then cut it all together over music. If I were to do something similar again, I would definitely take a different and more focused approach and incorporate some of the things people have said.

Regarding all that other stuff... Even though you didn't start or end your comments with any niceties, it didn't come off as rude or arrogant. Just honest criticism. I'm just sayin' if people are going to comment on my work and be rude about it, I reserve the right to call them out on their sorry attitude.
 
Criticism is the judgement of the merits and faults of the work or actions of an individual or group by another (the critic). To criticize does not necessarily imply to find fault, but the word is often taken to mean the simple expression of an objection against prejudice, or a disapproval.
Another meaning of criticism is the study, evaluation, and interpretation of literature, social movements, film, arts, and similar objects and events. The goal of this type of criticism is to understand the work or event more thoroughly.

I watched it twice. The first time muted because I am in a room full of people. I then read the posts that follow and watched again with audio. I have to agree KP was not the best option. Maybe I'm to old but "Mama said knock you out" would have been awesome or any song on his list but Europe - The Final Countdown. Opinion yes, meant to be mean never.
 
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