Manfrotto 504HD for DSLR Shooters

If they wanted to take on the DSLR/Video market they should of made a plate system with built in rails
 
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Come one people... Let's get those review units out there! $400 could be doable, if it's a better head than, say the libec ls-38.

It's ridiculous how badly I need a tripod.

Is it a real fluid head?
 
Find a used Sachtler. Better tripod, better investment.
Here are a few that just sold on Ebay in the same price range.


http://cgi.ebay.com/SACHTLER-DV1-CA...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cee43bb36

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sachtler-FSB-6-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item335bd05672

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sachtler-Video-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4837cc9fd5

You'll get many years out of a Bogan, (Sorry, Manfrotto these days) but when you want to dump it, resale is poor. You'll get a lifetime out of a Sachtler and when you're all done sell it and get your money back.
Don't get me wrong I have 2 Bogan tripods (With Miller heads) a Bogan Monopod, and 12 Bogan light stands. Plus a pile of Bogan adapters and mounts. Why? Because they are very cheap. They are very good for the money,
but I have one Sachtler tripod that is my primary tool and it's in another class all together. I get rental cash for the Sachtler but none for the Bogans.
Mercedes Benz or Ford, They both get you there and get you home.
 
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ROCKMORE said:
Find a used Sachtler. Better tripod, better investment.
Here are a few that just sold on Ebay in the same price range.


http://cgi.ebay.com/SACHTLER-DV1-CA...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cee43bb36

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sachtler-FSB-6-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item335bd05672

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sachtler-Video-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4837cc9fd5

You'll get many years out of a Bogan, (Sorry, Manfrotto these days) but when you want to dump it, resale is poor. You'll get a lifetime out of a Sachtler and when you're all done sell it and get your money back.
Don't get me wrong I have 2 Bogan tripods (With Miller heads) a Bogan Monopod, and 12 Bogan light stands. Plus a pile of Bogan adapters and mounts. Why? Because they are very cheap. They are very good for the money,
but I have one Sachtler tripod that is my primary tool and it's in another class all together. I get rental cash for the Sachtler but none for the Bogans.
Mercedes Benz or Ford, They both get you there and get you home.
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I picked up a Manfrotto 501HDV for $80. I think that's proof enough. :happy:
 
I picked one up today from lcd4video because I do not live too far from the store. Excellent head, way better than the 503hdv which I am sending back. I bought the kit with the legs for $729. The legs are good but I have to get used to the ball head and will probably be getting the bowl adapter so I use it with my slider.

The tripod is super adjustable and the legs can be retightened which I had to do to one out the box. It supports my redrock setup with counter weights pretty handily. High quality but I must admit I have only used manfrotto tripods in the past so i have nothing else to compare it with. When I pulled it out the bag it was well worth the price.
 
Here is the important question we all really need to know jtopp: With only a DSLR camera and a small lens (nothing else) and having the drag completely untightened, does it stay exactly where you put it whatever tilting angle you decide without any rebounding or falling when you let go. In other words is this barebones camera setup not too light for the tripod? The big problem for most of these heads is that their minimum weight is too high. With rails and accessories we know they are ok, but with just a barebones setup does it do what it is supposed to do?
 
Drag on the 504HD

Drag on the 504HD

With the drag unlocked, on a GH1 w/ kit lens, the camera stays totally still at any angle. Albeit, you must adjust the drag to do so, it is easily done. I had my tension set to 6-8 to do so depending on where my camera was mounted on the plate.
 
jtopp said:
With the drag unlocked, on a GH1 w/ kit lens, the camera stays totally still at any angle. Albeit, you must adjust the drag to do so, it is easily done. I had my tension set to 6-8 to do so depending on where my camera was mounted on the plate.
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Thanks for getting back to us on this.
However, it doesn't seem clear to me what you are saying, is the drag completely untightened or do you have to use it? Unlocked is one thing, having to use it is another. In other words can it stay totally still using only the counterbalance mechanism and absolutely no drag tension at all? Or is there no distinction between counterbalance and drag on this head?
 
I'm thinking you have to use the drag. Let me test it for you and I will report back. What's the bad part about using the drag if you don't mind me asking?
 
jtopp said:
I'm thinking you have to use the drag. Let me test it for you and I will report back. What's the bad part about using the drag if you don't mind me asking?
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The more you have to use the tilt drag, the less fluid becomes your movement on the vertical axis. It becomes stiffer and slower. This is even more noticeable when you are panning and tilting at the same time. Also at the end of a tilting movement it sometimes means you might have to lock it down at the end of the shot to prevent it from bouncing back or falling or have to use the handle to prevent this. This means that you might find yourself actually bracing yourself against the handle to prevent rebound or droop, thus increasing the chances of micromovements from your hand. You want the end of your movement to stay wherever you put it without having to touch the head again - especially if you are continuing to roll at the end of a shot.. A good fluid head has a controlled range of movement with each setting, thus relieving the operator of having to make an absolutely perfect movement with his arm and increasing repeatability. The other issue is that for quick setup purposes, it's good to have a series of fixed values, instead of having to rely on a variable drag setting which means time consuming rebalancing if there are any changes to the camera setup.
 
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With the drag break OFF, the tension set to 0 and using the kit lens on my gh1 bare on the tripod the camera stays in place unless you tilt it below 20 degrees in which case it rides back up a bit. Counterbalance was set to "1" which is the lowest setting other than OFF.

I'm sure if you had a heavier camera or rails it would not do that. But if you point up in the air, or keep it level )above 20 degrees) it will stay there all day. Nice tripod. I also stripped one of the legs clamps that locks on the highest stage of the legs and LCD for video swapped it out for me with no problem. Nice guys, myself and the owner chatted for a while on several different occasions and being a black guy (we sometimes are presumed ignorant) I felt that the experience was nice. Good people. Any more questions, just let me know? I have used it with my gh1' hmc-150 and redrock setup so far with no issue..
 
Thanks Jtopp,
Very valuable information. A lot of people have been asking me about this fluid head. (I am a moderator on another forum). Up to this point I couldn't respond, because the barebones setup was always a question.

So it appears to me that the heads minimum weight load is too heavy at least for a GH1. Even if it doesn't move for +/-20, it should be able to go beyond that without rebounding. At "0" I imagine that it just falls? Remains to be seen for a Canon which is heavier than a GH1, but I feel sure that it will be almost the same issue.

Sachtler FSB4 still is the best choice for lightweight setups in my opinion and not that different in pricing for a package from the Manfrotto system.

It sounds like you are happy with your choice though and it will probably meet your needs with a little extra weight or mass.

One thing which you might try. The reason why DSLR's often don't respond well on fluid heads even though they technically are within the weight specifications is that they don't sit as high on the fluid head as a traditional video or film camera. Thus if you raise the mass of the camera, the center of gravity may bring it into specifications for the head. Some kind of riser might solve the problem.


Cheers,
yoclay
 
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I don't have an issue with it at all because I have a Redrock Micro DSLR Field Cinema Kit. I think though your being a little too hard on the 504HD. The GH1 is light a light baby camera so I dont know if you could expect a tripod system that can hold a 17lbs. rig and a 32oz DSLR with out more adjustments than flicking a counterbalance dial. If you were to put a Zoom H4n on the GH1, it balances it out fine to your specs. Also, the reason the head has the counterbalance system and to ultra customizable drag and pan settings is so when you move the camera, you do not get the bounce-back. I have'nt gotten bounce back in my testing with my GH1 and my rig, the GH1 and a H4N, my HMC-150 by itself or on the rig.

If you just have a GH1 and the small kit lens, sure the 504HD might be overkill but if you have a bigger cannon or any accessory like a mike or a recorder or a rig, the 504HD is well worth the money. I had a 503 and the 504 is like 2-3 times better in construction.

That Sachtler FSB4 you recommended only supports 8lbs and I don't feel that it is marketed at the same type of user. If you only had a camera, and never planned to get a rig setup, that should be fine but the 504HD is for a 7D sized dslr or a GH1 with bigger lens or a Mic.

I recommend you try them out if possible because I am no expert I just needed a tripod and over the last week have been satisfied with my $700 purchase. Sorry for sounding like I work for Manfrotto but this is the best product that I have used from them and that is after my last Manfrotto tripod broke at the mount.

And thanks for the questions, they really helped me see how to use the setup better.
 
Totally understand jtopp. You work with a heavier rig, so it probably falls within the weight range. I know it seems like I am being hard on Manfrotto, but it is a head that is marketed to go from 0-7.5kg and yet in reality it probably has about a 1.5kg minimum:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/683559-REG/Manfrotto_504HD.html#specifications

This kind of marketing seems typical to me and just creates confusion around the product. I have yet to see a head that actually is able to hold up through that entire weight range, which is the kind of holy grail for DSLR shooters.

But at least the 504 is a big step up quality wise from their previous offerings accordoing to your mini-review.

Personally, I always have two setups as I often use two cameras. An FSB4 and FSB8, for these two different kinds of weight requirements. With the FSB8 I actually prefer using Manfrotto legs. However it would be nice to find a non-friction fluid head that actually can do both, rather than merely claiming to do so or hiding behind a friction/drag system.
 
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