Making my soundfx archive...

Z

Zaus_Rockwell

Member
For the longest time I've downloaded sound fx from the web and purchased some sound fx cds. But theres been too many times where I couldn't find exactly what I wanted, or those times I'd here the exact sound I used in another movie.

What I would like to do:
Get some sort of portable audio recording device and a mic, and go out recording my own sound fx to build an archive of my own sounds.

I've seen numerous behind the scenes featurettes in which they explain sound design and show some guy with a backpack filled with equipment, some headphones and a microphone walking around recording things.

I tried looking around the forums before hand, but no one seems to have posted anything about it. I basically wnat something thats essentially a DV camera without the video part (yea i know how that sounds)

Can someone help me? I would really appreciate it if someone pushed me in the right direction.
 
I'm just gonna give you a push in the right direction, though I'm by no means an audio expert. Essentially what you're looking for is a portable audio recorder. Check out Zoom's H2 and H4 for a lower-priced option. Then do some google searches on "portable audio recorder," or "zoom comparison." That should give you some options to look at.
 
There are a number of good portable recorders on the market these days that record very high quality sound to either internal hard drives or CF memory cards that can then be transferred into your computer by firewire or USB. The aforementioned Zoom's are good entry level units, followed up-scale by recorders from Tascam, m-Audio, Edirol, Sound Devices, etc. Success at gathering FX and foley is now a factor of microphone selection and imagination.
 
There have been posts on portable recorders here before. For the lower priced options, I like the M-Audio Microtrack. Of course in these entry level recorders, you'll have to sacrifice by having some noise in the recordings. You can find some good deals on Ebay if you are testing the waters and don't want to make too much of a financial commitment. Here is a link to some of the ones out there on the market.

http://www.sweetwater.com/c860--Flash_Players_Recorders
 
Zaus_Rockwell said:
F
What I would like to do:
Get some sort of portable audio recording device and a mic, and go out recording my own sound fx to build an archive of my own sounds.

I've seen numerous behind the scenes featurettes in which they explain sound design and show some guy with a backpack filled with equipment, some headphones and a microphone walking around recording things.
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Good choice.
For doing exactly that I use a MixPre attached to a PMD 671 and a pair (or one) Oktava mics. Now days I'm recommending the Tascam HD-P2, but I know someone who loves the Zoom (what ever the first model was). The Micro track has two problems (in my opinion) first it uses a non replaceable internal battery, so when you out your done - no putting in a new batt. And second it uses TRS connectors for the mic ins and the phantom power is below 48V (which causes problems for some mics, Oktava being one). The Zooms built in mics are supposed to be pretTy decent for general BG recordings.
A good preamp will make even a MiniDisk sound good so that's high in the list.
 
http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_finders_keepers/ Is a great artical about building a sound effect database written by Nick Peck, Sound Supervisor at LucasArts.

I am about ready to start working on my own using a Tascam HD-P2 and Oktava mic. I have tried using soo many of the sound effect CD's but I found that 99.95% of them just wouldnt work for what I was doing so I love the idea of building my own database of recordings.
 
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Just curious as to how a Mac g4 laptop with an external isight cam/mic would work for recording foley clips? Record to FCP or imovie. Any thoughts?
 
sputnikslim said:
Just curious as to how a Mac g4 laptop with an external isight cam/mic would work for recording foley clips? Record to FCP or imovie. Any thoughts?
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You wont get any quality recordings that way, would be fine for some youtube videos or something but any real project I would spend the money and get the right equipment.
 
Thanks. So, using a Mac with a better mic would still result in crap sound? I have a dvx100b. Would it be better with it's onboard mic than the Mac setup with a better mic for gathering foley?
 
Noiz2 said:
And second it uses TRS connectors for the mic ins and the phantom power is below 48V (which causes problems for some mics, Oktava being one).
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That's true with the original Microtrack, but the Microtrack II which just came out has full 48v. They still use the original battery scheme, but supposedly it lasts longer now. The main thing that I liked about the MT is that it is ultra portable so it is really easy to just stick in your pocket and always have it at the ready.
 
SurrealSolutions said:
http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_finders_keepers/ Is a great artical about building a sound effect database written by Nick Peck, Sound Supervisor at LucasArts.
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THE sound FX database app/ cataloger is SOUNDMINER. The full version is kind of steep if you don't do this for a living but there are cheaper versions (though I don't know if they are out yet). If your on a Mac there is Sound Log Pro (but the even the developer recommends Soundminer) and some other File Maker Pro apps that can track FX. I wrote one before moving to Soundminer. It's pretty basic, catalog, play transfer to a folder. I never got the spot into a PT session working (SLP spots). SM will spot into ProTools, Nuendo, FCP, STP and ??others??

The cheapest alternative I have seen is iTunes, OK for finding but can't spot.
On the PC there are a couple of apps.

SM's only real competitor is "Net Files" (NET TRacks, something like that). The are also cross platform (SM is also) but when I looked at the two they had some serious disadvantages. First a rather klunky interface, using QT as there conversion engine, dodgy support (that is somewhat of a first impression since I was testing the software and not a customer but SM in the same type of situation was VERY responsive), and a bit slow (compared to SM).
SM is very fast, fantastic support (I have gotten new builds to add a feature or fix something in less that 2 hours, and I have gotten email responses with in the hour at almost any time of day or night. Not a guarantee and some times it has taken longer but on average I get an answer with in a couple of hours).
 
Brad S. said:
That's true with the original Microtrack, but the Microtrack II which just came out has full 48v. They still use the original battery scheme, but supposedly it lasts longer now. The main thing that I liked about the MT is that it is ultra portable so it is really easy to just stick in your pocket and always have it at the ready.
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That's good to know because that was a major complaint. Everyone seemed to like the sound.
 
sputnikslim said:
I have a dvx100b. Would it be better with it's onboard mic than the Mac setup with a better mic for gathering foley?
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Better: probably.

Good (or even acceptable): not even close.

The transport whine of the camcorder alone would be enough to wreck most foley cues. Recording good foley depends on an extremely quiet recording space and transparent signal chain, among many other things. For most foley effects (eg. footsteps) anything louder than a camcorder wrapped in sound blankets shouldn't even be in the same room, let alone physically attached to the microphone.

The on-camera mic setup will also introduce a number of non-accoustic noises into the recording: the microphone, microphone preamplifier, and analogue-to-digital converter on the camera will all be adding significant amounts of noise. Furthermore, camcorder mics tend to be pretty insensitive devices with a frequency responses that can be charitably described as "uneven."

Its not all doom and gloom, though. The difference between a camcorder's on-board mics and a Zoom H4's are like night and day. There are many excellent and affordable high-resolution portable digital recorders on the market right now, many costing a small fraction of what a DAT recorder cost ten years ago. Many of the effects on those commercial effects libraries were recorded with something along the lines of a Sennheiser MKH416 and a Nagra IV. Swap the Nagra for a Fostex FR-2LE, and you're looking at a very moderately priced high-quality recording kit suitable for most of the effects situations you'll find yourself in. Add a dynamic mic (for the really loud effects) and a handful of $5 homemade contact pickups (for out-there sci-fi elements and underwater recording), and you're ready for just about anything.
 
Thanks SMuir. That's about what I thought with the transport noise, etc. So how does the dvx with a external mic stand up? Is there an ok mic at about $200 I could use with the dvx? This is for content on a DVD.
 
Brad S. said:
I'm intrigued. That sounds about in my price range. Can you post a link for how to make these?

Thanks.
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I imagine he's making them the same way I do. Go get some piezo buzzers from Radio Shack (any local electronics store should do also) or if you can find just the element it's cheaper. With the buzzer you want the cheapest piezo they make, no fancy electronics. Carefully cut open the plastic housing and you will find a disk of metal that on one side has a smaller "disk" attached. It's actually a disc of piezo crystal with a metal coating. It will have two wires coming off, one on the larger disk one on the smaller. Wire these to an input and away you go. The disk can be cut up into various shapes and sizes but you will need to solder leads to the two surfaces. The outer disk is pretty easy but the smaller disk has a VERY thin metal coating and it's pretty easy to pop it off the crystal so be careful. The signal ranges from mic level to way over line (if it's hit hard) so connect appropriately. For contact micing a mic in is what I usually use. The sound is very dependent on placement and how you attach it and the shape of the pickup. A little EQ can help making the response more flat, but this is for picking up sounds you don't normally hear so go for what works.

Have fun. The cable and connector will cost more than the pick up. Enclosures are also a DIY. I have made custom wood and plastic ones and have also just gooped a bunch of silicone calk on the disk. What you mainly need is strain relief for the cable so it doesn't pop off the small disk.
 
Noiz2 said:
I imagine he's making them the same way I do.
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I certainly am. The soldering can be a bit tricky, so I usually just scavenge piezo discs that already have leads soldered on.

Here are some instructions for making a DIY hydrophone: http://www.gantschnigg.net/doku.php?id=hydrobioakustik:diy_hydrophone_en

To make a contact transducer, simply omit the plastic sheets, screws, and O-ring.

They don't really sound at all naturalistic, so they're better suited to gathering non-literal sound design elements. For example, I once attached one to the side of my old microwave when I baked a potato, and the resulting freaky shimmering harmonics have been my go-to effect for a few sci-fi projects. Need a creepy screaching effect? Tape a pickup to one side of a cookie sheet and drag a brass-bristled brush across the other side.

Just be careful with them, because the more you compress the piezo element, the higher the output level. Hit one with a hammer, and you'll probably fry whatever its plugged into.
 
sputnikslim said:
Thanks SMuir. That's about what I thought with the transport noise, etc. So how does the dvx with a external mic stand up? Is there an ok mic at about $200 I could use with the dvx? This is for content on a DVD.
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If you can keep transport noise under control, the DVX could be an acceptable recorder, but you could do a lot better. DV camcorders are limited to 16-bit, 48 kHz stereo, whereas most newer portable recorders can record 24-bit 96kHz.

Then again, the weakest link in your signal chain is likely to be your microphone, so that should be your upgrade priority. For a better idea of the mic options on the market, just take a look at the forum stickies.
 
I would personally stay away from the Zoom. There are several major downfalls with it. One such being the lack of level control. Yes, you can "control" the levels on it. But you can barely change it what-so-ever. Its a royal pain. And you do get noise on it. So it's not perfect by any means. Spend the extra money and go with a Tascam. More control, better quality.
 
SMuir said:
I certainly am. The soldering can be a bit tricky, so I usually just scavenge piezo discs that already have leads soldered on.

Here are some instructions for making a DIY hydrophone: http://www.gantschnigg.net/doku.php?id=hydrobioakustik:diy_hydrophone_en

To make a contact transducer, simply omit the plastic sheets, screws, and O-ring.

They don't really sound at all naturalistic, so they're better suited to gathering non-literal sound design elements. For example, I once attached one to the side of my old microwave when I baked a potato, and the resulting freaky shimmering harmonics have been my go-to effect for a few sci-fi projects. Need a creepy screaching effect? Tape a pickup to one side of a cookie sheet and drag a brass-bristled brush across the other side.

Just be careful with them, because the more you compress the piezo element, the higher the output level. Hit one with a hammer, and you'll probably fry whatever its plugged into.
Click to expand...

Good link. I've made some a bit similar. My poss issue with the design is that you have a awfully stiff capsule and I would think this would have a serious impact on what it picks up. On the other hand you in water which is essentially incompressible so maybe it actually has very little impact? I'll have to try one.

To add to the note about high out put. A piezo flexed in the right way is capable of out puts in the 20-50,000 Volt range. It is what generates the spark in those lighters where you pull the trigger to light the butane. If you handle them as you would a mic then you shouldn't run into problems but if you get the bright idea to record a hammer smashing one you will probably fry whatever it's connected to. I have used them for years in lots of situations including stage shows and never had a problem but the potential is there.
 
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