Made the switch

roxics

roxics

Veteran
Couple of days ago I made the switch from a GH2 to a 60D. Still getting used to the camera. Will take me a little while. But so far I'm pretty happy. The overall look and feel of the footage seems more cinematic to me even if not as high of resolution. My girlfriend asked me why one of my videos looked like super 8 film. So she noticed a more film-like look herself.

I've already had moire pop up a handful of times, but I don't consider it a big deal. I think people get way to obsessed with that. Most regular folks don't even notice it in the background. Unless of course you point it out to them. So I really don't think it's as big of a deal as people on this forum make it out to be. Plenty of stuff is shot on these cameras without issue. I considered all of this before making the switch.

As for photos, I like the results I'm getting when they are right. But I do notice more blurry shots. I attribute that to me just not being used to the camera yet.

My biggest pet peeve with the 60D itself is the fact that the video mode is way at the other end of the dial compared to the manual photo mode. Combined that with the lock on the dial and it's pretty annoying if you have to switch back and forth between modes quickly.

I like the menu system better than the GH2. I also like the LCD screen better. But I miss the EVF and the dedicated white balance button.

I loaded Magic Lantern on it and I'm finding it a little annoying that I can't switch the ISO with the ISO button in movie mode anymore. Maybe I'm just overlooking something. I haven't really dived into ML too much yet.

I made the switch because I want to start building an arsenal of Canon glass. I've come to the conclusion that EF mount glass would be a good investment for myself long term when it comes to both photography and video. I want AF image stablized glass I can use for photos as well as for video. EF glass also seems to have the most support when I look at all the Canon DSLRs, their cinema line of cameras, the two Blackmagic cameras with electronic EF mounts and the RED cameras available with EF mounts.
 
Magic Lantern will solve that wheel issue of yours... and it will give you countless other goodies too. Read the manual, that ISO thing should have a solution too. (but I sold my canon, and the lastest build I've used myself is more than a year old, so, I don't really know).
 
roxics said:
Couple of days ago I made the switch from a GH2 to a 60D. Still getting used to the camera. Will take me a little while. But so far I'm pretty happy. The overall look and feel of the footage seems more cinematic to me even if not as high of resolution. My girlfriend asked me why one of my videos looked like super 8 film. So she noticed a more film-like look herself.

I've already had moire pop up a handful of times, but I don't consider it a big deal. I think people get way to obsessed with that. Most regular folks don't even notice it in the background. Unless of course you point it out to them. So I really don't think it's as big of a deal as people on this forum make it out to be. Plenty of stuff is shot on these cameras without issue. I considered all of this before making the switch.

As for photos, I like the results I'm getting when they are right. But I do notice more blurry shots. I attribute that to me just not being used to the camera yet.

My biggest pet peeve with the 60D itself is the fact that the video mode is way at the other end of the dial compared to the manual photo mode. Combined that with the lock on the dial and it's pretty annoying if you have to switch back and forth between modes quickly.

I like the menu system better than the GH2. I also like the LCD screen better. But I miss the EVF and the dedicated white balance button.

I loaded Magic Lantern on it and I'm finding it a little annoying that I can't switch the ISO with the ISO button in movie mode anymore. Maybe I'm just overlooking something. I haven't really dived into ML too much yet.

I made the switch because I want to start building an arsenal of Canon glass. I've come to the conclusion that EF mount glass would be a good investment for myself long term when it comes to both photography and video. I want AF image stablized glass I can use for photos as well as for video. EF glass also seems to have the most support when I look at all the Canon DSLRs, their cinema line of cameras, the two Blackmagic cameras with electronic EF mounts and the RED cameras available with EF mounts.
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The "Q" menu makes white balance and other settings pretty fast. But yeah, nothing like dedicated buttons and one handed operation when possible.
 
roxics said:
Couple of days ago I made the switch from a GH2 to a 60D. Still getting used to the camera. Will take me a little while. But so far I'm pretty happy.
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It's a great camera I've been using a 60D every day since it was released. I would suggest to install cinestyle and shoot with it as flat as possible. Dynamic range is achieved many ways from the camera's ability to lighting and picture style. This is a great benefit to retaining information in underexposed and overexposed areas on the frame. Some may squawk about noise in dark areas or what ever. Noise will always be there where light is absent no matter what camera you use, but in normal light the flat picture style buys you amazing amount of recovery of detail that will be gone using even nutral dialed all the way to -4.
Second I would set the camera to quick focus mode and refocus on a targeted object between the camera rolls which will snap into focus anything in the center square as fast as you cam push the camera trigger half way down, then hit the record button. In daylight shooting at waist level I can see the view screen enough to frame the shot but little else. When you get used to the method, targeting the subject between takes has been 95% right on.
You got it at the right time because the price is way down and magic lantern raw is coming into it's own by the day.
Have fun.
 
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I love my 60D as well. In case you're thinking going all out shooting flat, you might want to do a few test shots. Notice when shooting flat although you get a small increase in dynamic range, you get quite a large drop in resolution. You lose a lot of fine detail that you cannot recover. Maybe not a bad thing if you're shooting close up faces (mostly you don't need pores), maybe not so good in wide shots. And with the codec you don't have much latitude to CC anyway.
 
^ That's if you shoot too flat. Try Flaat: it's flat in the sense that the light response function is near-log (so, no in-built S curve), not in the sense that the image is crushed beyond repair.
 
Rainer said:
I love my 60D as well. In case you're thinking going all out shooting flat, you might want to do a few test shots. Notice when shooting flat although you get a small increase in dynamic range, you get quite a large drop in resolution. You lose a lot of fine detail that you cannot recover. Maybe not a bad thing if you're shooting close up faces (mostly you don't need pores), maybe not so good in wide shots. And with the codec you don't have much latitude to CC anyway.
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I'd be interested to see some of those examples of loss of resolution and detail. In my experience shooting Cinestyle since it's release I've been able to retain much more detail that would have been lost in high contrast situations. I will add that when I shoot a controlled lighting situation with talent & makeup where I've increased the dynamic range of the scene by keepong the exposure withen a few stops, I will usually shoot neutral with contrast -4 which will give me warmer skin tones, but when I'm shooting in uncontrolled situations where I have sun and shadow, I can always find more details in post.
Everything should be thoroughly tested by individual users, these are merely suggestions for new possibilities.
 
roxics said:
Couple of days ago I made the switch from a GH2 to a 60D
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I made the exact opposite switch 2.5 years ago, when I sold my 60D and all my Canon lenses after owning the GH2 for one month. The 60D was a great still photo camera, but I could not stand the softness of the video image, or the moire that would pop up in wide shots, and the noisier audio compared to the GH2. I know that Magic Lantern has helped to fix some of these things, but I never found my 60D to be more "cinematic" than my GH2, especially once the better quality GH2 patches like Lee Powell's FlowMotion ver 2.02 came out.
 
TheDingo said:
I made the exact opposite switch 2.5 years ago, when I sold my 60D and all my Canon lenses after owning the GH2 for one month. The 60D was a great still photo camera, but I could not stand the softness of the video image, or the moire that would pop up in wide shots, and the noisier audio compared to the GH2. I know that Magic Lantern has helped to fix some of these things, but I never found my 60D to be more "cinematic" than my GH2, especially once the better quality GH2 patches like Lee Powell's FlowMotion ver 2.02 came out.
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I was thinking of getting a GH2 when the hack started looking good and the price dropped, but I also got mixed reviews on it and never could warm up to avchd.
The truth is that Canon is paying the the bills here for 4 years and that's all that matters really. I've been looking at a Gh3, Mk3, BMCC and I'd even check out an XYZ when it's launched, but the reality is as long as the money keeps coming, nothing much is likely to change.
People coming for making a living in the film business know how fortunate we are these days. I mean the cameras are virtually free. I keep making money and don't need to buy anything, it's amazing. I'm selling my 60D and just going to use my 600D backup camera until I decide what else to get. BMCC is not really available yet and the 70D looks pretty weak for the money. I can buy 2 new 60ds for the same price, and besides wifi there won't be much difference in the IQ. The one camera that is looking good is a 5Dmk2 hacked for raw. I saw one go on ebay new for $800. magic Lantern is the most exciting thing to happen in this industry. Many roads to Rome.
 
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Couple thoughts here.

I just made the switch from a T3i to a new G6. It has a few features I really like and the new mp4 mode at 1080-60p with the extended tele crop is simply amazing. Panasonics new noise reduction and highlight handling in camera is far, far, far superior to anything Canon is doing.

Cinestyle for the canon's creates tons of noise in the middle registers, even when there's enough light. It has to rob color depth in the middle to add it to the top and bottom. There simply isn't enough room in an 8 bit codec to have it all. I found it also significantly reduces the ability to sharpen and crispen up that soft canon image.

With a profile like Samuel's Flaat10p you can keep the vivid Canon colors and keep the sharpening up without getting noise and that bedraggled mid range that is so typical of cinestyle in my experience. I know it's a subjective thing, but when I tried Flaat10p vs cinestyle side by side, I was always able to get a crisper images with colors that pop without the noise using Flaat. Even Philip Bloom said he stopped using cinestyle due to the noise and softness.

For a 60D I'd highly recommend you give the Flaat picture style a try.

Here's my latest video all hand held with the kit lens on my new G6. It's all shakey and my good friends are a pretty rough crowd, but you'll get the idea of the image the new G6 can produce. If this thing ever gets a hack, it is going to be an amazing tool when there's enough light.

http://youtu.be/arXHuj0FT8M

Cheers,
Pete
 
ROCKMORE said:
I was thinking of getting a GH2 when the hack started looking good and the price dropped, but I also got mixed reviews on it and never could warm up to avchd.
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Pretty much all consumer cameras are using some form of either AVCHD or h.264 CODECs, so short of shooting the RAW hack or using an external HDMI recorder, we are limited to 8-bit highly compressed AVCHD/h.264 recordings.

As for the mixed reviews on the GH2, just take a look at Shane Carruth's highly successful UpStream Color film to see what the GH2 camera can do in the right hands. Almost every review of this film mentions the beautiful / breath-taking visuals.

...I agree that the GH2 / GH3 is not for everybody, as you must grade any footage shot with this camera ( it can be pretty ugly without grading ), where Canon / Nikon cameras can produce a nicer look without grading.
 
Samuel H said:
^ That's if you shoot too flat. Try Flaat: it's flat in the sense that the light response function is near-log (so, no in-built S curve), not in the sense that the image is crushed beyond repair.
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Sounds good do you have a link to download Flaat.
Thanks
 
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