Mac users 108024pa

J

J_E_R

Member
Not trying to beat a dead horse here but I would like to know if anyone has found a way to import 1080 24pa footage on a mac without getting the top edge artifacting. I've made several posts here and the last word was that this is a OS X issue.

I have yet to see any 108024pa imported / edited on a mac that doesn't have this problem. This is not a FCP problem as you can see it in the original MXF file before importing. Windows users don't experience it, so it is likely not a camera problem. I don't see this at 720p.

If you don't think you're experiencing it, check the top few lines of your footage frame by frame for strange green and magenta lines as well as weird interlacing like lines (AA frame bleeding into the BB frame).

If you don't see this please post your camera (hvx200 or 200a) and OS X / QT specs. I would like to figure this out before starting another project.
 
I've read about this but haven't seen it as I don't shoot 24pa in 1080. you do have a bit of latitute though in just zooming in the image a touch. About 7 percent without noticing much artifacting and such. I'd say to zoom it just till it's out of the image and viola...


I've seen problems with stepping and artifacting in the reds in quicktime. That has been a big Pain for sure..


Good luck
 
While zooming is an option once you've shot, it's unacceptable to have to do in my opinion. When people call me about camera recommendations, it's difficult to explain to them that 'it's a great camera, but you just have to zoom in on the image to get rid of artifacts'. I think I'm done with using the HVX200, most of the stuff I work on requires 108024pa, and some of the stuff I shoot is not edited by me. I can't be giving clients footage with artifacts.
 
I haven't done anything in 1080 24pa, but have been looking into it for shooting a teaser. But it strikes me that from the info you've given JER, that it isn't the HVX, but rather the MAC that is the issue.

As you said "Windows users don't experience it, so it is likely not a camera problem." So I guess I don't really know why you'd suddenly be done with the HVX if it's the computer. Especially if you haven't tested other alternative cameras at 1080 24pa with a MAC.

Anyone had this happen with any other cameras? Also, another route is to simply use a mask and position it to cover those lines, although that is also not something that should have to be done. I have both PC & mAC and I may give this a try just to see what happens.

Matt
 
I do believe it is a Mac issue, but I have no desire to convert my entire post production investment to a Windows system just for one camera. From what I understand, the overwhelming majority of HVX200 users are on a Mac system. I work with media from a variety of cameras everyday, I have never seen this before. I have been trying to find a solution for over 6 months, but I can't get anywhere because it seems that I am the only person this bothers. Until more people document/report this problem, it is unlikely that it will ever be fixed which is unfortunate for all HVX200 users.
 
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Does anyone know what the problem is exactly (from my experience it seems like an issue in removing pulldown) and does anyone know if it could be corrected by an FCP (or cinema tools) software update?

If so, HVX users should start making a little more noise on this issue. Lately I've only been using 720p for space concerns so this has been a minor annoyance right now but I know when the day comes that I'll need to shoot 1080/24pA for real I will be steaming about this problem (as will my clients).
 
The problem has nothing to do with pulldown or FCP. You can see the artifacting before removing frames or opening FCP by using P2CMS or another MXF viewer.
 
Hate to say, but this DOES happen on Windows, as well. Using an HVX200, when shooting 1080/24pA, I see the mysterious flashing line in:

1) P2 Viewer (on multiple computers)
2) P2Forge (on multiple computers)
3) Premiere Pro CS3 v3.2 (on multiple computers)

It also can be seen in exports, such as FLV, MP4, and MPEG-2. Obviously this is far from a conclusive test, but this would indicate to me that the artifact is recorded into the footage by the camera. I'm led to believe that it has nothing to do with the playback sofware (whatever you're using), and it's not as a result of the pulldown frame removal, but is instead a result of the pulldown frame flagging.

I've just accepted this, as I've found no other information about solving the problem. I hate to say, but it's making me question my future use of Panasonic products. For the meantime, I have no other recourse than to continue to use the camera, but I can honestly say that I feel cheated. C'est la vie...
 
Then I may go back to my initial though that this is a camera problem. It is very frustrating, especially that most people think that zooming in or matting is acceptable enough to let the issue go. To me it is serious issue, especially when considering the camera for higher end projects.
 
I honestly cannot believe that this is an in-camera issue, if it were wouldn't it be getting ALOT more attention, no matter how acceptable people find it. It would at least be mentioned negatively in reviews
 
FUBARFilms said:
I honestly cannot believe that this is an in-camera issue, if it were wouldn't it be getting ALOT more attention, no matter how acceptable people find it. It would at least be mentioned negatively in reviews
Click to expand...

I guess 1080 24PA is just not that popular or people don't care enough to report it honestly. I still have not seen any 1080 24pa footage in person that doesn't show this artifacting.
 
Crap, well I was going to shoot my feature film in 1080pa, will some senior members of the forum please speak on this issue? I thought I was going to make a great film with 1920x1080 footage with the pa option removing the pulldown to get my native 1080p, but, I never heard of this issue. Well, since I am using the redrock micro m2 lens adapter, am I excempt from this problem since I zoom in anyways?
 
What I do as a quick fix is just put a 1:78 widescreen matte on the footage. That gives you black bars small enough to block out the line on top and when exporting you can set it to crop them out and give you a true 1:78 aspect ratio. It's been working well so far as long as your not married to the few MMs of footage you loose on the top and bottom.
 
Just because it is a camera problem doesn't mean it's a problem with EVERY camera. You guys may have lemons...?
 
ullanta said:
Just because it is a camera problem doesn't mean it's a problem with EVERY camera. You guys may have lemons...?
Click to expand...

I've personally seen this on 5-6 different cameras bought at different times from different sources. Have you tested this yourself?
 
I may be jumping the gun here but I am thinking it is a Panasonic issue - and not a FCP or Mac OS issue.

I have shot 1080p24A footage on the HVX recording onto the FireStore in Quicktime mode, and I see the magenta lines showing up in the top of every clip.

Keep in mind these clips were recorded as Quicktime - so the files were simply copied off the Firestore onto my computer. Opening them up in Quicktime, even before taking them into FCP, shows lines at the top of the frame. So I don't see how the Mac OS can really play any part in this (unless of course it's something that is showing up on Quicktime in playback and is not actually on the footage itself - I suppose that might be possible).

They show up like clockwork every 4th frame.
That is consistent among different shoots on different days - not simply one isolated case.

(And on one of those shoots, we were using a different camera and different firestore.)



The only way to properly test this would be to shoot a short clip in MXF and upload it so that users on both PCs and Macs can import it.
If the PC users see no lines at the top of the frame - then we can narrow it down to a Mac issue.
At that point it seems the best thing to do would be to shoot a Quicktime file directly onto the Firestore and upload that - if PC users with Quicktime see the issue at that time then you could narrow it down to Quicktime being the culprit (not necessarily the Mac OS).

If I get a chance later today I'll see if I can shoot something short and put it up.
 
I've shot 1080pa footage with my HVX (geese on a frozen lake, as one example) without getting any such artifacting in FCP 6. Mind you, I don't ingest via firewire, so maybe that has something to do with it? I dunno. I always copy the P2 card to a folder on an external drive and then log and transfer from that location and I don't have a problem.
 
Nexis said:
I've shot 1080pa footage with my HVX (geese on a frozen lake, as one example) without getting any such artifacting in FCP 6. Mind you, I don't ingest via firewire, so maybe that has something to do with it? I dunno. I always copy the P2 card to a folder on an external drive and then log and transfer from that location and I don't have a problem.
Click to expand...

If you haven't, I encourage you to check the footage you shot carefully -- when I first started describing this, people said they never noticed this problem ... until I pointed it out to them.

If it's not there, please post your OS / QT / camera firmware.

Thanks!
 
I dump P2 cards to a laptop PC. It is visible using P2 viewer on the laptop. It is also visible on my MBP using Raylight and by log and transfer into FCP 6.

Also dumped directly to the MBP via Duel Adapter to rule out the xfer via USB drive. No difference.

For those of you who wish to duplicate the problem, I recommend shooting a light colored background.

This is (was) my first project using 1080 24pa. I join JER in disappointment.

Is there a fix?
 
I've been shooting 1080 24pA, ingesting it into FCP using panasonics 5-slot P2 reader + 'log and transfer" from the cards, and I have not seen any of this top edge artifacting.
I even just looked at a bunch of old footage, slowly and analyzed the top and edges and there's nothing wrong. There was all sorts of lighting and types of shots too (bright, dark...) and nothing wrong that I could see.

I am using FCP 6, and when I bring the clip into the timeline it automatically sets the proper settings.


> could someone please post a photo with this problem so I can see how it looks and compare it?
 
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