Mac or HP for EX1 Workflow???

W

Wilshireblvd

Active member
I am currently using PC workstations for post with EX1 footage. However I am getting frustrated with the bugs and the program crashes. Plus, there seems to be a real struggle in making simple edits with EX1 footage...and it is really difficult to do more advanced work like digital grading. I am considering making the switch to Mac Pro 8-core workstations. Otherwise, I'm going to go with HP 8-core systems. I need results so I can take advantage of the great EX1 footage without bothering with technical issues/slowdowns.

Any EX1 users here have an overwhelming preference? I've had people tell me to stay away from Mac...but I am really tempted to give it a shot. Anyone done side-by-side comparisons?

Hope this isn't too off topic...just curious what you guys in particular think.

(currently - HP 2.8 GHz Duo Core w/ 2GB RAM - NVidia 256MB Graphics Card - Unlimited hard drive space - Adobe Master Collection CS3 - Cineform Prospect HD)

(considering - Mac Pro 3GHz Dual Quad Core w/ 4GB RAM, NVidia 512 Card, Adobe and Final Cut Pro OR similar HP dual QC with Adobe MC CS3)
 
Take into account that when you move to a Mac (which I did) you kinda have to let go off Premiere CS3. This is because Adobe their products are not natively supported by the Mac system and thus FCP is a lot faster.

Personally I am very happy with my 2 x quad 2.6Ghz Mac Pro. Just need to buy extra ram for it.
 
FCS 2 is way better than Premiere's suite, for the exception of Adobe After Effects CS3. Not to mention, Apple's Pro Res codec.
 
We are a few days away from knowing about Premieres support for EX1 footage. It has to be said, Apple have been much quicker off the starting blocks with this than Adobe. I would certainly wait a few days to see what NAB brings before making big purchasing decisions.
I use FCS2 and CS3 on a Mac, and have no complaints with the Apple software and the EX1. I would like to be able to use Premiere, just because is will work much better with After Effects (e.g. sharing timelines), and fortunately it is going to be a free update (I hear), so I will be able to try it out for myself.
Whoever told you to steer clear of Macs probably hasn't used one recently. What reason did they give? You can always boot a new Mac as a PC, if you really wanted to.
 
basilisk said:
Whoever told you to steer clear of Macs probably hasn't used one recently. What reason did they give? You can always boot a new Mac as a PC, if you really wanted to.
Click to expand...

The main compaint I've heard is that Macs freeze up a lot. With PCs, you at least get a program crash and can start over...but I've been told there is a lot of freezing with macs.
 
Wilshireblvd said:
The main compaint I've heard is that Macs freeze up a lot. With PCs, you at least get a program crash and can start over...but I've been told there is a lot of freezing with macs.
Click to expand...

Not my experience. I have had to force a restart on my current Mac only once since I got it (a few months now). I actually only seem to restart it when I install new software; otherwise it just sleeps overnight. Of course there might be a particular bit of software that causes a particular problem, but nothing current that I am aware of. You can easily force quit single applications in a way that very rarely touches other apps. The days when a single app would take down the whole computer went out with OS9 about seven years ago. I guess since Macs seem to last longer than PCs, it is possible that there are folks out there still happily running old machines on OS9, and maybe that was your expert's experience.
 
Wilshire, it would be more helpful if you spoke from actual experience and not hearsay.

I've been using FCP on my various macs for ten years and it's crashed perhaps three times. It has never frozen, by my recollection. I have used every version from 1.0 to the current 6.0.2 (now 6.0.3)

Even if it did, it has a highly customizable autosave feature do you can get back to work quickly.
 
Final Cut Support the EX1 quite well- it's native editing and works like a charm. Premiere is not native EX1- but could very well be at NAB next week. It's also a solid alternative to FCP and contrary to one post above is indeed quite native on Intel Macs. That said, I think you should go with one or the other. If you do go FCP though, please check out my new workflow disc on the EX1. :)

http://www.callboxlive.com/store/sony-guidebook-p-39.html

-Noah
 
matthew77 said:
Wilshire, it would be more helpful if you spoke from actual experience and not hearsay.

I've been using FCP on my various macs for ten years and it's crashed perhaps three times. It has never frozen, by my recollection. I have used every version from 1.0 to the current 6.0.2 (now 6.0.3)

Even if it did, it has a highly customizable autosave feature do you can get back to work quickly.
Click to expand...

With all due respect Matthew...I would love to speak from experience, but I have spent the past 10 years editing on PC and I don't have a lot of mac experience...that's why I'm here asking you guys. These complaints I am speaking were all over the place on several mac forums. I'm just trying to make an educated decision on whether to make the switch. I'm very impressed with mac and I'm excited at the idea of having a cleaner, more stable workflow! Gonna be expensive either way.:)

I appreciate the help I've gotten here...thanks.
 
every time a computer crashes, God kills a kitten.....soooo..... get a mac!


BUY A MAC.....YOU WILL LIKE YOUR SELF FOR IT!!!!!!
And FOR GOD's sake save a kitten while your at it!


jon
 
WinXP is about to be discontinued...that seals it...bye bye PC...I'm definitely going Mac!:)

Just to make this relevent to the EX1....downloaded the adobe update for native support...worked on my workstation...didn't work for my laptop. Odd.
 
I just want to confirm the other macusers here: I work with a macbook and MacPro 2,66. Had once a kernel panic last april while testing aperture/beta. That was the only "crash". Never had one again.
 
About Premiere and After Effect.
Its not the EX1 that is not supported (which is by now).
But it's Premiere and AE that is not supported by OSX.
Yea, it runs, but don't ask me how. Because the render engine of Premiere and AE are based on a different coding library the software is being emulated over several layers which makes it VERY slow. This is also the reason why FCP kicks it's a-hole that easy.

Premiere and AE are just faster on Windows, just because the code is Windows optimized.

I do have some problems with a Mac, but not more or less then a PC. Probably because i abuse it too much.
My Mac has the tendency of not wanting to shut down. Also when a Mac app freezes it is a lot worse then on a Windows machine.
Still, the work flow for video is a lot better on a Mac then on a Windows. And these crashes I am talking about can happen on a Windows as easy as they are happening on my Mac.
 
astute said:
About Premiere and After Effect.
Its not the EX1 that is not supported (which is by now).
But it's Premiere and AE that is not supported by OSX.
Yea, it runs, but don't ask me how. Because the render engine of Premiere and AE are based on a different coding library the software is being emulated over several layers which makes it VERY slow. This is also the reason why FCP kicks it's a-hole that easy.

Premiere and AE are just faster on Windows, just because the code is Windows optimized.

I do have some problems with a Mac, but not more or less then a PC. Probably because i abuse it too much.
My Mac has the tendency of not wanting to shut down. Also when a Mac app freezes it is a lot worse then on a Windows machine.
Still, the work flow for video is a lot better on a Mac then on a Windows. And these crashes I am talking about can happen on a Windows as easy as they are happening on my Mac.
Click to expand...


Define "Abuse". :badputer:

I was under the impression that the CS3 software from Adobe had a Mac specific version. Actually, the people at the Apple Store here told me Adobe will take all the Windows software back and replace it with Mac software at no cost. That'd be cool...anyone know if this is true?

Anyway, I'm fed up with Microsoft. And it's more than just the editing side of things. I guess it's kind of like, I can get a Ford Mustang (HP) or an Astin Martin (Mac). Hmmm. From the anti-virus software that causes havoc with EVERYTHING to the little "your desktop needs cleaning" and "new definition for blah blah blah", it has gotten really really old! I've been fairly happy with XP, but I feel like I've had somewhat of a religious experience in talking to the Apple store guys.:)

By the way...I apologize that I have gotten this topic pretty far away from the EX1. But, I guess with a great camera, you need a great post setup.
 
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Wilshireblvd (that is a hard name to type at this hour):
Yes, there is a mac specific version, doesn't mean its written for the Mac.
Let me explain.
What they did, when the Intel macs came out, they took the Windows version, and an OLD version of coding method designed for Mac os9 (yes, that old) and worked with that. (there are names for these methods, you can find it somewhere online)

This coding method is a lot easier for porting from Windows to Mac.
So the program runs on Mac natively but all the rendering that is done is done through several layers.

You can see it as translating a piece of English text to Chinese and then back to English. What you get is probably an okay result, but it just takes extra time.
Why to Chinese? Well, that old method they use, only understands Chinese, but Mac OSX only understands English...

I hope its a bit more clear now...

And for the abuse part, I like to run unstable beta software and let my machine render big ass files for like two days in a row...
 
astute said:
Wilshireblvd (that is a hard name to type at this hour):
Yes, there is a mac specific version, doesn't mean its written for the Mac.
Let me explain.
What they did, when the Intel macs came out, they took the Windows version, and an OLD version of coding method designed for Mac os9 (yes, that old) and worked with that. (there are names for these methods, you can find it somewhere online)

This coding method is a lot easier for porting from Windows to Mac.
So the program runs on Mac natively but all the rendering that is done is done through several layers.

You can see it as translating a piece of English text to Chinese and then back to English. What you get is probably an okay result, but it just takes extra time.
Why to Chinese? Well, that old method they use, only understands Chinese, but Mac OSX only understands English...

I hope its a bit more clear now...

And for the abuse part, I like to run unstable beta software and let my machine render big ass files for like two days in a row...
Click to expand...

I appreciate the explanation. Go to bed!:)
 
Not going to argue that raw performance can be better with AE on Windows, but it probably should not be overstated. If these figures are reliable we are looking at a difference of no more than 10-15 percent. Your analogy of translating into Chinese and back would imply a completely different ballpark.
http://creativemac.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=167680

I don't know if Premiere is better or worse in comparative performance, and most Mac users are probably going to opt for FCP, as it is a much more tried and tested option on the Mac. I might opt to do some short form cutting in Premiere, as it plays better with AE than FCP (in theory), but I would be treating it more as a useful adjunct to AE, than my main editor.

I would say Apple has a better (but not unblemished) record of supporting advances in video technology quickly, if you look back at the adoption of DVCPRO HD, XDCAM EX, even HDV. To get things working on the PC often involves relying on 3rd party codecs (sometimes pricey)
 
I have CS3 for the mac and run FCP. It Froze once or twice. I own 3 macs and none of them have EVER crashed. (1 G4 ,1 G5 and 1 macmini) But i also Have a Custom built PC that I use for Nuendo and that thing is a tank as well. I love macs and always will but if you get a PC done right it will be just as fast but they usually crash a little more. the good thing about PC's is that you can open them up and fix them yourself. I dont even think of opening my Mac ulnless it is to install memory. Just buy one. You won't regret it.
 
I got a imac a year ago and never look back to PC's, as far as I'm concerned moving to the mac was one of the best hardware workflow decision i have ever made.

I just got a new mac book pro 2,5ghz its so dam fast!!! i can't believe the speed of this thing, it edits 1080p ex1 footage like a dream, renders only take a bit more time when i use magic bullet appart from that things are pretty snappy.
 
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