Looking for Post Audio / Foley Help

Larry Rutledge

Larry Rutledge

Fest Master
I just posted this great thread and when I clicked "Submit New Thread" it went all haywire on me :Drogar-Angry(DBG): ...Oh well, I'll try again.



I asked about this a couple weeks ago in one of the composer threads. But I think it got buried under all the discussion around the many great composers who were making themselves available for (Super)HeroFest.

If you know how to do Post Audio work (audio sweetening, foley/sfx, mixing, etc) and are willing to help out with (Super) Hero Fest we'd love to hear from you.

I know for myself audio will be difficult both because of a lack of experience and because I only have a cheap $20 pair of computer speakers.

So if you have experience in this area and are willing to help out with (Super) Hero Fest, now is your chance to stand up and be counted :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Thanks,
Larry
 
Larry, I might be able to help out with audio sweetening and mixing. I'll be able to lend you my technical experience, but I'm pretty busy as far as the foley/sfx goes. I could help out a bit with sfx, but as of right now; I'm not well prepared to do any foley work.
 
larry if you don't have good balanced speakers
-- use headphones
then compare the headphone mix to the speakers

I decent ear muff cheap set of headphones is better than cheap speakers.

Plugs also are better but beware they may have an enhanced bass reponse.
 
Noct - thanks for the offer to help with sweetening and mixing...that is really my biggest concern. I'm pretty sure I can take care of foley/sfx, but the sweetening/mixing is an issue since I don't have adequate audio monitoring equipment. I'll PM you for more information later.

JDS - thanks for the headphone tip, that is actually a good idea. Even if it's not advisable to use headphones over studio monitors it has to be better than the crappy little PC speakers I currently use.

- Larry
 
Headphones are good, but maybe a little too detailed in some cases. You can hear the most minute sounds like they're upfront. It's because your ears are so close to the drivers. When it comes to panning headphones get weird. Psychoacoustically your left ear wants to hear a small amount of the sound the right ear hears and vice versa. Headphones cut those sources off so it's strong L and strong R and nothing in between. That's stale.

Sometimes a small set of inexpensive PC speakers will work to your advantage. You should be very comfortable with the particular speakers. If you don't have access to a nice set of monitors use both headphones, PC speakers, and burn it and play it back on your home entertainment system. Use every possible source you can.

Larry, groovy, for sweetening and mixing I'm your guy. I'm running midfield Dynaudios, on Questeds, and Auratones in a pretty decent control room. My pre consultation to the audio, get the timing right but leave things dry. I have compression and reverb that makes the basic computer effects sound nasty and cheap.
 
Noct said:
Headphones are good, but maybe a little too detailed in some cases. You can hear the most minute sounds like they're upfront. It's because your ears are so close to the drivers. When it comes to panning headphones get weird. Psychoacoustically your left ear wants to hear a small amount of the sound the right ear hears and vice versa. Headphones cut those sources off so it's strong L and strong R and nothing in between. That's stale.

Sometimes a small set of inexpensive PC speakers will work to your advantage. You should be very comfortable with the particular speakers. If you don't have access to a nice set of monitors use both headphones, PC speakers, and burn it and play it back on your home entertainment system. Use every possible source you can...
Click to expand...

yeah that's why I said compare back and forth between the two

before I had decent monitor speakers, many's the time I finished a mix, burned a disc, put it in a dvd player connected to a decent sound system and --- holy crap that sounds like s h i t ... the ADR sounds like a drive time DJ, the bass is overpowering...

So that's why I emphasize balanced sound over psychoacoustic properties which can be checked by taking your headphones off, if you have your speakers correctly placed.
 
I wasn't arguing with you Jack. I was just adding my 2 cents.

Balanced sound is psychoacoustically based. All psychacoustic means is how our brains use our ears to perceive sound. How can that be different from finding balance?

Headphones are a heavily compressed source. Take a set of headphones and listen to a scene that, lets says has birds chirping, then it starts to rain, then a train from the distance starts to approach and gets louder and louder as it passes. Headphones will let you hear the birds chirping quite clearly and upfront. The rain will start and it will also sound very clear and not much different from the chirping. The train will start to appraoch and it gets louder but not in a subtle way that you would hear on monitors or even some decent PC speakers.

The reason is; the drivers are right on your head injecting a sound straight into your ears. You don't have a physical development of bass, and most of the mid range frequencies. I can't remember the exact number, but a 40hz sine wave will take about 27 feet to develop. That's feet we're talking about, not centimeters off of the skull.

I'm not against headphones. They serve their purpose. I'm just trying to communicate my knowledge and perspective into the matter.
 
Noct - thanks for the heads up on capturing the audio clean. I will make sure there is no processing done to them. I have a couple additional questions about what to provide you, but I'll send them in a PM later.


The headphone/monitor debate and info is great...it's good to hear the pro's and con's and the reality of using headphones, etc. I'm curious, do either of you have recommendations on monitor speakers that would enable me to get good sound, but that wouldn't break the bank?
 
lol -- not again, Noct, ... you and I saying essentiallyy the same thing for 12 posts each a paragraph long ... :grin:


Alls I'm sayin' homey, is I've gotten screwed more often by office depot computer speakers than by headphones, whether desging professionally for the theatre or doing this new film thing, or teachinhg soud design at Tulane (I am no engineer by any stretch however, and I did use "balanced" incorrectly/informally meaing that I find frequency response more accurate in headohones than cheap computer speakers regardless of their placement realtive to my head vs. my headphones -- and please don't launch into an explanation of the way diferent frequencies and waves of different amplitudes and pitch travel, i get the effect of proximity of sound, BUT the computer speakers will be VERY limited or SKEWED or will have bass that's completley unattural where as a most $30 headphones will have a more accurate dipiction of the bass vs the mids vs the trebles (irregardles of the fact that the traingle ding will sound more present) when compared to most computer speakers in my experience not when compared to perfectly set up studio monitors in a studio.

I also found that running my DVD through a home theatre system many things were stunningly clear and too present and just not represented very well at all on my $50 computer speakers.

I could here all of those things however in headphones, due to the proximity to the ear as you mentioned and the fact that $30 headphones are just plain better than $30 computer speakers.

You wouldn't recommend he just listen to the computer speakers would you?

If you don't have real studio monitors positioned properly the only way you can get something close to an accurate mix IMHO is to use HEadphones, your computer speakers, and then play it on a nice home theatre system, and a crappy one and use your own judgement.
 
Larry R said:
....do either of you have recommendations on monitor speakers that would enable me to get good sound, but that wouldn't break the bank?
Click to expand...

now Noct wil really make fun of me ...
but I own M-Audio (he's already laughing) studio pro 4's http://www.guitarvision.com/mf/mf_frameset.htm
they are $150 in this add, you can find them for less, I got mine on sale for $99.

you can also find them on eBay.

The key word here is "won't break the bank"

I got to the point where you are and after a few frustrating mixes using computer speakers and headphones then listening on real system later and being like WTF ... I had to get something.

I've been really happy with these, they've substantially reduced the WTF factor when viewing my finished film and listening on other speakers - high end or low end.

but there might be a better pair for teh price ... Noct?

Also while we have Noct here ... these speakers have a mid boost switch on the back (which I leave off of course) but why would I want to boost the frequencies that I hear better anyway ... Noct?
 
Jack - thanks for the info, but the link just goes to GuitarVision's main page. Is there a part number I can look up for those M-Audio speakers?

Is it these? M-Audio Studiophile DX4 Powered Monitors Pair
http://cgi.ebay.com/M-Audio-STUDIOP...ryZ47093QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



You are correct in pointing out the "not break the bank" statement. That is truly the key. I can't afford to buy the best, and I'm not trying to build an audio studio. If I had the money for that I would just rent someone else's.

I just need something that will sound better than the $20 pc speakers I got just so I could listen to MP3's and CDs while writing screenplays :)
 
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no not the same but comparible ... go to guitar center and use their search function for
M-Audio Studiophile DX4
and
m audio studio pro 4

they are the same price, the pro4 seem to be rated higher than the dx4, pro 4 is "active" dx4 is "powered"
when searching ebay remember to play with maudio m-audio M Audio

but search
"m audio studio pro 4" on ebay
 
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i'm not sure ... they might be two unrealted features ... but the active have gotten a better user ratings on guitar center

... and yeah that's them
 
It's usually a good idea to make two mixes, one for the web and one for DVD. Most trailer companies will do that for their work.

A lot of folks here have some pretty decent sound equipment for their computers. I got a $50 2.5 set from Frys a while back (clearance sale) and they produce a surprisingly good sound for a small space.

I'm hoping most filmmakers go to town with their sound design for this contest - it has great possibilities!
 
Aza said:
Remember, this is for the web. We'll be listening to them on cheap $20 speakers ourselves ;)
Click to expand...
that's good to consider but mixing is like color balancing -- you want the most accurate depcition of the information, in that way it will vary the least from speaker crummy speaker to crummy speaker.


people's monitors and such are all different at hone as well, but if your white balance / color correction is off, the innacurate depiction is magnified when played on someone's monitor where the color may be more or less saturated, the tint might be slightly different, or - the hardest to gage on PC vs. Mac monitors - gamma may be off. So if you're gamma is way dark on a PC it will be eveb darker on a MAC and if you're contrast is low on a MAC it will look washed out on a PC.

To me using headphones and good speakers is like making a hi def master and then you down convert for your SD DVD -- you may see information that's not there in the SD version, simillarly you may here things on studio monitors or headphones that may not be respresented well on someone's cheap speakers -- but the opposite would be worse -- to not here things on the low end computer speakers you are mastering wich may be very present on someone else's system.

Kind of like saying you don't need a a good video monitor to do color correction because most people will only watch on un calintrated lower resolution walmart TV's.
 
Curugon said:
It's usually a good idea to make two mixes, one for the web and one for DVD. Most trailer companies will do that for their work...
Click to expand...

hey can you tell us the differences or point us where we can find that info?

thanks
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
hey can you tell us the differences or point us where we can find that info?

thanks
Click to expand...


Well, I'de start by knocking off a lot of the low end. It's a bit like adding a subwoofer crossover, it'l spruce up and make your midrange a hell of a lot cleaner.

I'de also cut out the highs and use a degree of stereo spreading, since most people's PC speakers are not more than a couple feet apart, and don't represent high end well. That, and being mindful of compression artifacts for the web also.

For the DVD, it'd be 5.1 of course! :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

And for the DVD, much more dynamic range.
 
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