Looking for people who want to make an easy video in exchange for credit

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Yeah, I remember there are people who make their living from filmmaking here - I'm one of them. And guess what, writing this and the previous sentence cost me more than a buck in billable time. If it's a scam it's a scam for rent money maybe. Crap if the OP needs a buck that bad PM me and I'll send you one.
And as far as flushing him out, you may have just chased him away. Don't get me wrong here. I'm truly surprised. Most everyone who responded harshly is usually very helpful and constructive. You guys are a big part of the heart of DVXuser at this point in time. I just feel it smacks of guitly until proven innocent. That's a place I don't want to go to.
 
MadSinCinema, I have not seen anyone attack you personally. They have however, attacked your approach and a possible ethical issue.

I have seen them ask for your credentials in film-making. I have seen them ask to see what you have done. Those are fair questions when you walk into a group of film-makers and your first post is asking for money.

Help us help you. Show us what you have done in the past.

And keep in mind, the admin here have been gracious to you in allowing this thread to continue, and allow you to explain further. Threads like this have been deleted in the past because a "first poster's" first post was asking for money. Here's another tip: Get involved in the forum as a contributing member. There has to be one area here you can share your knowledge of film-making in. It would be welcomed.

But to introduce yourself with your hand out asking for money with nothing to establish your experience in film-making is a bit optimistic. And even I am skeptical of this. It's just plain bad etiquette.

Think of it like this: You are on the street and a bunch of us are standing around on a break from set. You walk up to us (we have no idea who you are) and you ask us for money for your film. What do you think the response would be if it were in person? Nothing different than what has happened here.
 
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Guess it really felt like nothing but attacks all you see is red.
We have this info up on the indiegogo page as well, all these what felt like attacks for things all answered on the page. It has a link to our last film, already completed and entering festivals as we speak. Here's the youtube with trailers http://www.youtube.com/mynameisabyanonymous

The guy saying scam scam scam, seriously? The other 22,000 indiegogo people raising money, what do they do to prove their not scams. I've seen anti trafficking films raise money in the thousands, how do we know they're not scams? Any of these films? How do you know? And after all we said you're going to now through the buck thing in our face, like do you realy need it that bad? Uh, yeah, we do, we're trying to make a film. As said, we'll do it with 500 bucks if we have to, so if we get a buck from 500 people we'll make the film. Almost no other filmmaker aiming to raise money probably would, and yet we're the scams? Wow. So be it. If you say so. You win this argument, fine. Seriously. Go ahead.
 
MadSinCinema said:
As said, we'll do it with 500 bucks if we have to, so if we get a buck from 500 people we'll make the film.
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I'm not trying to attack you when I say this, and I respect the fact you are attempting to make a film from the ground up.

That being said, your above quote? It screams poor planning to me.
You are asking for 75 thousand dollars but will make the film for $500 bux.

Obviously you don't need 75 thousand dollars then correct? Obviously the higher the amount the more "stuff" you can put into it but
if you are WILLING to make the film for $500 dollars and asking for 75grand it sounds like you really havent put the effort in
to the actual planning of the film to have any idea what it will actually cost to make.
Instead in my own opinion it sounds like you are just throwing out some random figure.

Because of that I would find it extremely difficult to want to support it.
 
No, MadSinCinema, you have missed the point. We don't know you, and yet you joined DVXUser solely to ask us for money without you getting involved here. If you walked into my house as a guest, and the first words out of your mouth were "can I have some money", I wouldn't feel great about you being in my house as a guest.

Same thing here. You need people to be comfortable with you, you need to establish who you are, and you need to be a little more tactful when approaching people for money. This site is not about getting total strangers money for their films. This site is about film-making and a community of film-makers who share their experiences and knowledge.

What knowledge and experience have you shared with the membership, other than you need money?

What you have to understand is DVXUser is not just a forum......... we are a Community. Many of us have worked together on set, and if it wasn't for pesky geography, we would probably be the world's largest production company.

We welcome new members that contribute to the Community. But if your sole reason for joining DVXUser was to put your hand out for money.......well, you probably joined the wrong forum then. There is a low toleration here for that, as you have just experienced.
 
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The best thing to do before a fund-raising campaign is to get organized and have a plan in place. No business gets funding without an approved business plan... if this is just asking a bunch of people for a buck each, on a public forum... that you just joined... you gotta' expect criticism. That's why I pointed out PK... he does things for charity and this forum has helped him on several occasions... but he also has a track-record... and public proof of all that he does. This is what makes it work for him... He's established a reputation, he says what he wants to do and how he plans to do it, he gets donations, and then he shows everybody where their money went.

The next time he has an idea and tells people about it... they back him again.

I wouldn't look at this vetting process as harsh... if you consider it constructive then you'll be learning a lesson in how to get funding.

All you have to do is show something else you've done, or some track-record of charitable effort... or show that you've got a plan.

Doc Bernard said:
We welcome new members that contribute to the Community. But if your sole reason for joining DVXUser was to put your hand out for money.......well, you probably joined the wrong forum then. There is a low toleration here for that.
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This is the reason for the reaction. It's common knowledge that 100% of filmmakers want funding for their film(s) anyway. Even in Hollywood films are rarely made with one's own money... so it's not that it's so wrong to look for funding... or to try to do a good intentioned film with other people's contributions... but as of now, nobody knows you or even if you will (or can) do what you're saying... right now it's The Human Fund.
 
MadSinCinema said:
To everyone else
I'm sorry but the name of this site is the online community for filmmaking.
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Well, yeah -- it's a community. And as a community, there's give and take.

Your introduction to our community was to ask for money. But a quick check of the community guidelines would have revealed:

7. No Poaching
If you have something to contribute to the community, please contribute it here, don't just say "hey everyone, look what's going on over on my own site." That's just a lame way of trying to build your own [project] up by poaching our members, and it's just not cool. Don't be a "taker", be a contributor.
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So, you're pretty much asking from the community but have given no indication as to what the community gets out of it.


Like I said I'd be all over it if I saw that option.
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OK, why? Why would you be "all over it"? What would motivate you to expend the time and the contribution to a random project just because someone asks? What do you get out of it?

You're asking people to contribute simply assuming that they think they're getting something in return (after all, that's what a "deal" is). But what is that thing? What does a "credit" in your film do for anyone? And in fact, is there any reason to think that it might not be a complete disaster that people would be embarrassed to have their names in?

You haven't given anyone any reason to want to contribute other than "hey, I'm making a film to raise awareness." OK. Who are you, and why should we invest with you?


Where do you people come from that you attack people who are doing whatever they can to make a film
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No one's attacking you for trying to make a film. They're just asking why they should contribute to it, and questioning your expectation that everyone should automatically want to.
 
Anyone ever get calls from telemarketers that are nice at first, then you decline their offer, hang up and they call back immediately demanding to know why your not interested?

Kinda reminds me of this.

Original Poster seems pretty aggressive/defensive. And that was when someone just asked to see some of their work. Immediately OP goes on the attack.

If PK put up this same post... a lot of people would probably start making films, because he has a record of proof on his good intentions.
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+1

Yeah, PK documented pretty much everything he did at first (and still does) and that made it real easy to send donations. Who could forget the Karaoke world record attempt? That provided entertainment all weekend.
 
This may sound like a stupid question, but bear with me OP; National Geographic, The Discovery Channel, and Vanguard, have all shot, produced, and aired programs on the exact subject you want to make a documentary about. What's "new" in your documentary, that is going to make a difference??
I've seen countless show already aired on television in regards to this "trafficking" problem-so, as a viewer, I already "get it". What more do I need to see?? What more needs to be shown?? What did those 3 shows miss??

Do you see where I'm going here?
While I understand your "Cause Celeb", it's been beat to death.......
And now, you want independent film makers to contribute something to this cause. What is there left to contribute??
 
Also....

And after all we said you're going to now through the buck thing in our face, like do you realy need it that bad?
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Yeah, I'm sure some people actually do need it really bad right about now.

Why would someone want to help you out after saying something like that?

C'mon.
 
@OP (MadCinCinema)


At this point in your project, all you are probably thinking about is getting the thing funded.
I noted that your current raised amount is 0$ so I'll help you with your brainstorm quickly.

1) What you did here is called a cold call. It hardly ever works because you shake people's comfort zones so don't take it personally.
It's like walking into a random company and asking for money without flashing any credentials.

Best thing to do (as posted so passionately above) is to introduce yourself, flash your credentials, time on project etc. and kinda sell yourself before you sell your project.

2) Dunno if you have done this yet but start with friends, family, acquaintances etc. and get some donations rolling so that your project page has a bit of life on it.

3) Get an endorsement or two from affiliated NPO's or NGO's or better yet, a police agency of some sort. It helps with any kind of fund raising to have a trusted and respected logo next to yours!

4) On a project like yours, you can get really strong product placement deals! A lot of companies would be very keen to line up their corporate brand with a cause like this!

5) Have you approached local film schools/academies? Lots of students itching for a chance to prove their mettle!

6) If you have a good production logistics management team, you can definitely apply for film funding from government agencies! Your Production logistics management is more important than the actual script when it comes to funding and rebates!

Um.. that's all I have for now.

I know some of it sounds intimidating and tiresome, but you can get your entire film funded with purely points 4 and 6 if you have your ducks in a row!

Anyhoo.

Good luck, it's hard but you can do it!
 
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Some clairification of my comment that you clearly took offense to (comparing you to the traffficers in jest):

My company provides various Free Software & GNU/Linux products for free on our websites. We also sell a few of these on CDs to help finance our projects, and of course try to make a profit. I've had to spend hours posting on various Linux forums before I could so much as say "hey, check out my new project that you can download for FREE, and even re-sell if you like" without being in fear of being banned for spamming. Why? Becasue I also sell products for a profit, so directing people to my website, even to get useful, free software that is completely relevant to the topic of the forum *might* also garner me some paying customers. And that is looked upon a spammy if you haven't established yourself first, which I completely understand.

So if I can't even post about something topical and free without having my motives suspect, I certainly am not going to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who swoops in from nowhere with a "have I got a deal for you" pitch, and no history of any kind.

On top of that: look no further than Craigslist, and you'll find a litany of "work for me for free in exchange for credit" posts that are almost universally accepted as simply trying to take advantage of people who don't know better. 99.95% of the time, if someone is a no-name and trying to promote themselves, cause or product, there is little they can offer you in terms of exposure or noteriety unless you are are lesser-known or less respected than they are. So by saying "being associated with me or my product has value in itself" you are basically saying "My product or company is better or more well-known than yours, and I'd be doing you a favor by letting you bask in my light."

Not so suprisingly, people tend to get insulted by this if you don't back it up, especially if they consider themselves professional or established already. It would be a bit like a mom-and-pop local computer repair shop calling Bill Gates and saying "We'll let you speak at our grand opening for FREE! Think of all the exposure you'll get! There will be a newspaper reporter there and everything! Other places charge for that honor. If it were me, I'd jump at that chance!"

Don't take all these comments as meaning "get out, we don't want you here." Feel free to stay, participate in discussions, and be a upstanding member of the community. But if you are just here to get people to support your film, you'd better be prepared to dazzle everyone with how awesome you are, otherwise you'll have to endure us treaing you like a cold-call salesperson. Becasue regardless of your cause, if you're only here to promote yourself or project and not contribute, that's all you are.
 
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Well put Twisted.


To Wilbur:

Nobody is stopping him from making the film, nobody is attacking his film, nor are they saying it's a bad idea. It's his approach and, well let's face it, panhandling for "funding" here is where everyone is having an issue, seeing he has not contributed to this forum in any other way (I see his post count never got above 0). People tried to put it subtly to the OP in the beginning that this was not going to be a good thread for him to start his membership at DVXUser with. But he got defensive and passive aggressive. And well........ he was warned.

And what he was doing is against forum rules.

It's that simple.
 
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If you show up at an "community", entirely out of the blue and say "Hi, you don't know me, and I won't tell you anything about myself including my real name, but I'm a great guy, Here's what I want from you"....

Walk into a neighbourhood pub where no one knows you and give that a try, or any other "community" type group. Even face to face you'll have a hard sell, but MadCinCinema (no other name is given) comes here, entirely anonymously and wants money and people with a Youtube following of at least 1000, for "something"... You do the work and I take the credit is never going to get you many friends.

Not the best way to sway people's interest in helping somebody (whoever you might be).
 
Wilbur Eddings said:
I don't understand how a film making 'community' can feel justified - along with full mod support - in attacking the hell out of this person's project without any kind of research or solid proof that this is in fact a 'scam'.

That's not a community, that's a gang.
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I think you're reading a different thread than I did.

I didn't see one attack (with or without moderator support) at the OP's project.

What I did see was some serious questioning directed to the OP's approach and attitude.

We are community.

Join it before you ask for money from it.
 
Doc Bernard said:
Well put Twisted.


To Wilbur:

Nobody is stopping him from making the film, nobody is attacking his film, nor are they saying it's a bad idea. It's his approach and, well let's face it, panhandling for "funding" here is where everyone is having an issue, seeing he has not contributed to this forum in any other way. And it is against forum rules.

It's that simple.
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Not the impression one gets if one reads the thread from the top down.
Basically the guy is called a scam artist on his first pot.
Pan handler or not, it's wrong.

If 'forum rules' come before 'common decency' then I think we are missing the point of having rules.

Anyhoo.. I'm starting to look and feel like a Rebel/Troll around here. I guess you lot built these forums and know what you are doing.
 
Wilbur Eddings said:
Not the impression one gets if one reads the thread from the top down.
Basically the guy is called a scam artist on his first pot.
Pan handler or not, it's wrong.

If 'forum rules' come before 'common decency' then I think we are missing the point of having rules.

Anyhoo.. I'm starting to look and feel like a Rebel/Troll around here. I guess you lot built these forums and know what you are doing.
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Frankly, his approach smacked of "scam artist" language and tactics from the very beginning. Whether or not that was intended, I don't know. But when people ask for bona-fides, or want to know more about who is asking for money, and that request is ignored, it tends to portray the person in question in a very bad light.

Hey, maybe they are just zealous/passionate about their project or maybe they are someone attached to the film as a producer (raising money for the film). I get that. But there were too many red flags waving for me on this one.
 
Wilbur, those are good suggestions for him. However, I honestly don't see where the majority of the commenters are "attacking" in any way. "Scam" was only mentioned in one post, and even then it was alluding to the OP's approach. Time and again, users commented that they completely understand that a film needs money to be made, and what they had an issue with was the approach.

Several suggestions were made to clarify the OP's request and improve his approach, which I consider constructive criticism. It may not always sound sweet and nice, but if one doesn't become defensive, such criticism can be the best thing ever. The OP's approach may have started the conversation out on the wrong foot, but everyone appreciates when a person can accept criticism and use it to make things better. A PR nightmare for a company can quickly become a dream come true when the CEO, instead of going on the defensive, says, "thanks for your feedback, we made some missteps, we're going to make it better"

Several requests were made for some examples of work to back up his claims, and after some venting, a link to a trailer for another film was provided. Now we have something to evaluate the OP's offer on.

Here's the thing: A credit is not a credit is not a credit. That is, simply having a credit in a film is not valuable in and of itself. Whereas a credit in a good film can be awesome, a credit in a bad film is one you'd rather not have. The point is, saying, "it's a credit in a film, you should be thankful it's so cheap" is losing sight of the fact that the value of a credit is based on the quality of the film that it follows.

Making a good film-- especially a serious one about a serious topic-- is all about good communication. How well your request for support is communicated speaks volumes about how well you're going to share your message in your film. People want to support others (even more, filmmakers want to support other filmmakers), but it's harder to do so when doubts are raised about whether a particular project will successfully communicate the intended message. People are less apt to support something if they don't know if it will be end up being more of a detriment to the cause than a benefit. So when the OP says, "So be it. If you say so. You win this argument, fine. Seriously. Go ahead.", when people are asking for clarification, it speaks directly to how the OP will ultimately communicate a much tougher and more controversial topic of human trafficking.

MadSinCinema: As I said in my first post, the topic you want to make a film about may be worth raising awareness for, but it's your approach and the way you're requesting support that leaves a bad taste. You may not see it this way now, but hopefully one day you will come to see how valuable it is to have people who will call you out on things and provide constructive criticism. The commenters didn't tiptoe around and try to make you feel good, they welcomed you into the community without hesitation by being upfront an honest with you. That's more valuable than anything else.
 
Just love the way you guys are justifying your sarcastic "just trying to be helpful" comments. Really funny and really disappointing at the same time!
 
To me, the conclusion to be drawn is that the op's approach (here) has not worked... He is trying to sell people on something, and it is not working. I would take that as good advice to re-examine my approach, and take into account the things said here...

b/c for an internet forum, this thread has been pretty damn respectful, imo :) considering how easily these kinds of topics can get out of hand..

Even if it wasn't, the result is what should hopefully be of value to the o.p. he posted a pitch. it got a bad response. you can continue to plow ahead with the same approach, or you can take this as a cue to re-examine the approach in hopes of finding a better success rate.
 
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