Looking for B Cam to accompany BPCC 6K

J

Joshua_G

Well-known member
I enjoy my BPCC 6K and am looking for a B Cam to accompany it.
By B Cam I mean shooting simultaneously from a different angle, without compromising too much the image quality and sharpness, at least on 1080p, and in relatively low light conditions. The B Cam can be either a cinema camera, DSLR/MLS, or a camcorder, as long as it answers my requirements.

Possibly the best B Cam will be another BPCC 6K, yet, I'm looking for other possible options, if there are such.

The B Cam must have:
1. Ability to shoot at least 2 hours continuously, in one shot.
2. Capturing at least 1080p, 4:2:2 10 bit, either by internal recording or on HDMI out, or SDI out.
3. Fairly sharp images.
4. Fairly good low light performance.
5. Either fixed lens of fairly good zoom range, or ability to accept Canon EF lenses - either directly or via an adapter.
6. Good menu control, preferably by touch screen.
7. Silent (or almost silent) operation.
8. Cost up to $3K ($3,000.00) USD (new).

Highly desirable attributes:
9. Ability to sync, preferable jam-sync, to an external TC.
10. Usable AF, preferably also Following AF, preferably by touch screen.
11. Ability to record h.264 or h.265.
12. Ability to get 4K video, either by internal recording or on HDMI out, or SDI out.
13. Internal ND filters.
14. Fairly good internal audio preamplifiers.
15. Either detachable screen, or fully articulated screen.
16. Screen which is usable viewing outside, in bright days (not necessarily under direct sun light).
17. Good ergonomics for OMB video shooting.
18. Good battery life.
19, Fairly sturdy build.
20. Weight up to 4.5 lib (~2Kg), including battery and screen, excluding lens in case of changeable lenses.
21. Good customer support and repair service.

Is there any such beast?

(BTW, the BPCC 6K answers requirements 1-9, 12, 20 and 21 in the above lists.
Between the BPCC 4K and the BPCC 6K, I prefer a second BPCC 6K).

Thank you all, responding and commenting.
 
It would seem the B cam is another one or a P4k, or an older BM depending on budget.

I would assume a bcam is designed to cut simply image wise with the A cam also have similar light response and handling.

It would seem that your wish list is of an entirely different camera which could be a used FS7, an FS5 or a used C300ii ect.. (or a new C300iii or FX9 if you have budget) .. it would be usual for that to be the A camera on a typical shoot where the pocket BMC would be the b cam !
 
Hi Morgan,

morgan_moore said:
It would seem the B cam is another one or a P4k, or an older BM depending on budget.
Click to expand...
BPCC 4K with adaptor will cost about the same as BPCC 6K. As I wrote above, between the two I prefer the BPCC 6K.

morgan_moore said:
I would assume a bcam is designed to cut simply image wise with the A cam also have similar light response and handling.
Click to expand...
"B Cam" means shooting simultaneously from a different angle, with similar IQ, not necessarily similar handling.

morgan_moore said:
It would seem that your wish list is of an entirely different camera which could be a used FS7, an FS5 or a used C300ii ect.. (or a new C300iii or FX9 if you have budget) ..
Click to expand...
No one of those suggested cameras answer either #5, or #8 of my mandatory requirements.

morgan_moore said:
it would be usual for that to be the A camera on a typical shoot where the pocket BMC would be the b cam !
Click to expand...
Again, "B Cam" means shooting simultaneously from a different angle, with similar IQ.
 
Alex H. said:
It’s always best to match your cameras if at all possible. Since the BMPCC6K is well under your budget cap, I see no reason why you’d want to buy anything else.
Click to expand...
Hi Alex,
As I wrote in my initial post, I doubt if there is a better camera which answers my requirements.

What I miss in the BPCC 6K is:
Good AF, including Follow AF;
Internal NDs;
Detachable or fully articulated screen;
Good preamps with 2 x full size XLR inputs;
Better battery life;
Less crowded In/Out connectors.

Elsewhere the Panasonic GH5 was suggested. I wouldn't purchase it at this point, due to the big gap in color science and the need for much work in post to match footage with the BPCC 6K. If and when the time will come, I may consider it as a third camera.

Is there no Camcorder with decent low-light performance in this price range?
 
I think you want the canon C200 though it's a stretch for your budget. You can get a used c200b under $4k but you said you want the touch screen

If you can live without AF, you could buy whichever version of the ursa mini pro fits your budget

"Choose what to lose!"

If you can say goodbye to internal NDs, you could get the A7SIII with an XLR attachment but then you're up to $4k, and the color will probably be even harder to match than the GH5.

There's also a 1-inch camcorder like the xf405 but I don't know about low-light or 10Bit: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1361551-REG/canon_2212c002_xf405_camcorder_with_8_29mp.html

Canon will supposedly launch an RF mount c100mk2 or C200 successor by september but I'm guessing it will cost $5-7k
 
Joshua_G said:
Good AF, including Follow AF;
Internal NDs;
Click to expand...

These are the tricky parts, especially good AF. To get decent AF, it almost takes either going above your budget for the camera body, or going with a DSLR which will be more challenging to match in post (and no internal ND). These items were on your “highly desirable” list as opposed to your “must-have” list, so I guess it’s up to just how important these traits really are.

Joshua_G said:
Is there no Camcorder with decent low-light performance in this price range?
Click to expand...

Traditional camcorders are going to have such an inherently different look to your BMD camera that post would be a nightmare. The closest you might get would be the DVX200... above your budget line, and Panasonic color which you’ve already ruled out.

Maybe look at Z Cam. I shoot with these and I love them. The flagship bodies offer lens mounts with drop-in eND filters, so you get the internal ND. AF is... iffy. It can work in some situations, but isn’t as reliable. Not sure that feature has been unlocked in the higher models, though. The E2 S6 is Super35 sensor 6K and under your budget line, and available with EF mount. There’s a 5-pin Lemo audio input (identical to Alexa Mini) for which you can use either an XLR y-cable or something like an A Box (I have the latter) for input. Mic-level only, though. TC input through their add-on adapter. They can be matched fairly easily in post, though Blackmagic does have a notable red shift. ZLog is very nice.

It’s a “sensor in a box” design, so you add whichever monitor you want.

The only other major issue with what you’re wanting in a camera is repair support. The Z Cam folks are based in Hong Kong and are incredibly responsive. Very, very active on the facebook user group and very responsive to troubleshooting and even feature requests. The only downside is there’s no repair facility outside of their offices. But again, customer support is top-notch.

All that aside, the best way to match your BMPCC6K in post is another BMPCC6K.
 
ahalpert said:
I think you want the canon C200 though it's a stretch for your budget. You can get a used c200b under $4k but you said you want the touch screen

If you can live without AF, you could buy whichever version of the ursa mini pro fits your budget

"Choose what to lose!"

If you can say goodbye to internal NDs, you could get the A7SIII with an XLR attachment but then you're up to $4k, and the color will probably be even harder to match than the GH5.

There's also a 1-inch camcorder like the xf405 but I don't know about low-light or 10Bit: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1361551-REG/canon_2212c002_xf405_camcorder_with_8_29mp.html

Canon will supposedly launch an RF mount c100mk2 or C200 successor by september but I'm guessing it will cost $5-7k
Click to expand...
Thanks, Alpert.
None of the above list, including the Canon XF405 (8 bit), answers my mandatory demands 1-8.
 
Alex H. said:
These are the tricky parts, especially good AF. To get decent AF, it almost takes either going above your budget for the camera body, or going with a DSLR which will be more challenging to match in post (and no internal ND). These items were on your “highly desirable” list as opposed to your “must-have” list, so I guess it’s up to just how important these traits really are.



Traditional camcorders are going to have such an inherently different look to your BMD camera that post would be a nightmare. The closest you might get would be the DVX200... above your budget line, and Panasonic color which you’ve already ruled out.

Maybe look at Z Cam. I shoot with these and I love them. The flagship bodies offer lens mounts with drop-in eND filters, so you get the internal ND. AF is... iffy. It can work in some situations, but isn’t as reliable. Not sure that feature has been unlocked in the higher models, though. The E2 S6 is Super35 sensor 6K and under your budget line, and available with EF mount. There’s a 5-pin Lemo audio input (identical to Alexa Mini) for which you can use either an XLR y-cable or something like an A Box (I have the latter) for input. Mic-level only, though. TC input through their add-on adapter. They can be matched fairly easily in post, though Blackmagic does have a notable red shift. ZLog is very nice.

It’s a “sensor in a box” design, so you add whichever monitor you want.

The only other major issue with what you’re wanting in a camera is repair support. The Z Cam folks are based in Hong Kong and are incredibly responsive. Very, very active on the facebook user group and very responsive to troubleshooting and even feature requests. The only downside is there’s no repair facility outside of their offices. But again, customer support is top-notch.

All that aside, the best way to match your BMPCC6K in post is another BMPCC6K.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Alex.
Good customer support with no repair facility is not useful for me.
To my view, the bottom line of what you wrote is that presently there is no better second camera than another BPCC 6K.
 
Joshua_G said:
None of the above list.. answers my mandatory demands 1-8.
Click to expand...

Your demands are not simply met or we would all have that camera.

As per my first post I think a used cine camera is your closest - be that c300ii c200 fs7 whatever. The pros and cons of each is well debated - probably summarised as manual focus eva1 AF a canon
 
Aside from another BMPCC6k there is one camera from outside the family overlooked that is a nearly perfect match, and the color science is far closer than Sony color, a bargain that comes with everything, it's not going to be mentioned, drumroll please, eva1. Takes the same lenses, same sensor format, dual native iso, shoots 5.7k raw, has great codecs, decent battery life, electronic stabilization, built in ND, all the connectors, handgrip, top handle, LCD monitor with hood. It's not really missing anything compared to BMPCC6k except internal raw, 120p frame rates, 5.7k 50p/60p, but adds a lot.
 
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This is what happens when all the new cameras come out, one like this that's ahead of its time gets written off or not thought of because it's older.
 
Actually come to think of it, the Fuji XT3 might do the trick. Supposedly it has semi-decent AF, it's like $1500, good low-light, good codecs, good color...
 
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