looking for Audio recorder for camera

F

firehawk

Veteran
Looking for a small audio recorder that has Sony trigger so the audio recording will sync with the in-camera recording start/stop. Ideally it is small enough to attach to the camera.
Something like an Atomos recorder without the screen would be great. Cameras are FX6 and PXW-Z200.
Any ideas? Thank you
 
Unless the sound recorder supports an “Ext. TC / Cont. – Auto Rec” input function, like the series 8 Sound Devices units, I don't know how you would achieve this. The Sound Devices recorders though will cost you more than the cameras.

What I have used years and years ago for stand-alone recording of audio, though they will record video at the same time in the form of ProRes, and they can be triggered from the HDMI stop / start of the camera record trigger, are the old Atomos Ninja Star recorders. They support both Canon and Sony HDMI stop start record protocols. They are as small and cheap as you can go for a PCM audio recorder with camera start / stop triggering.

Furthermore, they will record audio via the HDMI port or via a two channel / stereo mini jack port. The audio input is for a line level 2V pk-pk audio signal. If you want to record 4K or HD 50/60p on the camera, you will need to set the camera HDMI output to 720p 50/60p as 30p is as high as they will go in Full HD. No 4K of course. These are from way before 4K days. Which is fine if you just want to suck in the PCM uncompressed audio out of the ProRes files. Ninja Stars use CFast cards. You can use either Sony style NP series batteries or D-Tap as a power source.

They frequently pop up on eBay. Seen them from about $150 or so and up. Even seen new ones, which is a bit of a surprise as they have been out of production for years now. I had two of them. Wish I had never sold them for precisely the same reasons you are chasing something now. Needing a small audio recorder with stop / start triggering.

Here is an eBay sample. https://www.ebay.com/itm/156773113612?customid=&toolid=10050

Chris Young
 

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Thank you kindly Chris. I remember those Ninja Stars and seems like possibly the best solution since I have not found anything else
 
Are you looking for overall higher quality or just a second recording source for easy delivery? Both those cameras probably have high level recording capabilities and the Z200 seemed to have nice preamps when I tested it.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Are you looking for overall higher quality or just a second recording source for easy delivery? Both those cameras probably have high level recording capabilities and the Z200 seemed to have nice preamps when I tested it.
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Just looking for second recording source. Quality can be lower no problem
 
firehawk said:
Just looking for second recording source. Quality can be lower no problem
Click to expand...
Maybe you already have something you can use with an adapter (I think that one is only for the iPhone but others might exist).

Haven't test it myself but:
Back in the day, I was using Atomos and Blackmagic recorders so frequently (mostly for the monitoring) that I would use one of those...you can't use a monitor in your setup? (Probably not since you mentioned without a screen.)
 
I may have a suggestion, but it really depends on WHAT he's trying to do. He hasn't said why he's looking for such a device.
 
When I first started shooting on DSLRs (about 2-3 years after starting with camcorders), I was really scared of losing or ruining audio (there was no budget for pro recorders and some of those affordable preamps were a few years away).

So I didn't have many options but one option I found was a shotgun microphone that had built-in recording (forgot which company but they were a big one, and Rode was only just getting going).

I was so pumped to use it...forgot to press record half of the time. 🤦‍♂️
 
My thought as a guy who used to do a lot of location-sound work, and still does a fair amount:

The audio on the FX6 is fairy OK, as in professionally OK. I don't know how the audio is on the Z200 (an interesting camera), but it might be pretty good too. In fact lots of current cameras have OK audio, especially if you're working in the doc and corporate world. I mean I'll go straight into modern Canon and Sony cameras without much worries if I'm just getting basic dialog, interviews, etc.

However, I know what I'm doing audio-wise and I'm using really good mics and wireless (Schoeps, Sanken, Lectro, etc). So my take these days is focus on your audio mics and audio craft (placement, etc) and skip the extra and fairly needless hassle of a separate audio recorder attached to your camera.

BUT!! If you're in a situation with really demanding or complex audio needs, hire a location-sound person. I mean, when you get above two (and for sure above three) audio sources, or you really need a boom to follow improvising actors or a verite-style doc situation, or have multiple cameras, or.... There will be more tasks than a single person can consistly keep track of.

So I'd say, don't buy a separate recorder unless you yourself will be operating as a loction-sound person... And get decent-quality mics, mounts, wireless, etc.... And then hire a sound person when it really matters.

I'm traveling and tired, so I might not be making a perfect argument, but hopefully my point is basically clear (or Alex H will whack me on the head with clearer thoughts....)
 
Jim, your argument is perfectly clear. But without knowing more about the OP's reason for wanting a separate recorder, it is hard to offer good advice. He already said quality doesn't matter so I think your suggestions aren't applicable.
 
firehawk said:
Just looking for second recording source. Quality can be lower no problem
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If backup is the purpose use an Atomos because it records both the audio and video. What would be the point of only backing up the audio? One without the other is useless. I use to use remote to trigger both the camera and the Atomos but stopped because there's a risk of not fully depressing the record button and thinking you're recording when you're not. When doing multiple quick takes you can think your doing the opposite. I leave the Atomos recording the entire time I'm filming.
 
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Doug Jensen said:
Jim, your argument is perfectly clear. But without knowing more about the OP's reason for wanting a separate recorder, it is hard to offer good advice. He already said quality doesn't matter so I think your suggestions aren't applicable.
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But if quality doesn't matter, why go through the hassle of a separate recorder? Using the camera audio means one less thing to rig, power, keep track of.... And your level meters can be on your camera screen.

So yes, the "use a sound person" suggestion might not apply, but the "just use your camera audio" idea does.
 
Jim Feeley said:
But if quality doesn't matter, why go through the hassle of a separate recorder? Using the camera audio means one less thing to rig, power, keep track of.... And your level meters can be on your camera screen.

So yes, the "use a sound person" suggestion might not apply, but the "just use your camera audio" idea does.
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Who knows what his reason is. Does it matter? He said they recordings could be of a lower quality. And in many cases, the audio quality is not the defining issue for a secondary recording.

A personal experience example.

In my case, many years back, my business produced monthly videos over ten years for the government mandated training videos that all financial planners had to go through for their national licensing and accreditation here in Australia. They were day long three camera studio type shoots but in various locations. These were generally based around eight round table interview / discussions each day. The shoots had many breaks and stop starts due to retakes, pickups and general stuff ups. At the end of each day we had to supply a file based, not tape based, audio recording of every recording made by the cameras. These went to an overnight transcription service, enabling the government financial gurus the following day to go through and nitpick everything that was recorded. This was done to ensure, everything that wasn't legally correct or ambiguous in any way was struck out. Using Ninja Star ProRes files with matching time code to the camera files with exact stop start stop times per take enabled them to give us a TC accurate transcription EDL for us to work from for the program edit sessions. I just installed QT player on the various guru's computers to allow them to watch and listen to the ProRes LT file interviews. To have tried to record audio without TC and accurate stop starts of multiple cameras with countless stops and starts per day by any other process that was available at the time would have been an absolute nightmare.

Chris Young
 
cyvideo said:
Who knows what his reason is. Does it matter?
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Chris, of course it matters.

Do you know if he needs matching timecode?
Do you know if he needs transcripts?
Do you know if he needs discreet files/tracks of all the audio sources, or if they can be mixed into one track?
Do you know what file format the recordings need to be?
Do you know if this is strictly for backup purposes or is something always going to be done with the recordings, and if so, what?

I have a couple of suggestions but I don't want to waste my time explaining them until I know they will actually accomplish what the OP wants to do.
So, yeah, the REASON matters.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Chris, of course it matters.

Do you know if he needs matching timecode?
Do you know if he needs transcripts?
Do you know if he needs discreet files/tracks of all the audio sources, or if they can be mixed into one track?
Do you know what file format the recordings need to be?
Do you know if this is strictly for backup purposes or is something always going to be done with the recordings, and if so, what?

I have a couple of suggestions but I don't want to waste my time explaining them until I know they will actually accomplish what the OP wants to do.
So, yeah, the REASON matters.
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I don't think it does, Doug. He outlined his request. Quote "Just looking for second recording source. Quality can be lower no problem." No other specifics mentioned in his request. In my mind, that covers a wide variety of suggestions / solutions I would suggest. So I'm just taking him at his word?

Chris Young
 
cyvideo said:
I don't think it does, Doug. He outlined his request. Quote "Just looking for second recording source. Quality can be lower no problem." No other specifics mentioned in his request. In my mind, that covers a wide variety of suggestions / solutions I would suggest. So I'm just taking him at his word?

Chris Young
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Then we will have to agree to disagree because I think there are questions that need answering in order to give a useful answer. If someone said, "I need a car and horsepower doesn't matter", or "I need to record video and resolution doesn't matter", is that enough info for you to offer any kind of meaningful advice? If so, you must be a mind reader or are not really interested in solving the actual problem at hand. Your anecdote about the government shoot is interesting, but how do you know it is even applicable to the OP's situation? You don't. All we know is that quality is not a factor, and that right there ought to be a red flag. Quality always matters at some level.

I've stood in the Sony booth for 15 years at NAB, and run dozens of workshops around the country, and when it comes to answering questions or dispensing advice, it is often important to first know WHY someone is asking the question. What do they want to accomplish? If someone asks what is the best screwdriver, but it turns on on further questioning they want to pound nails, the answer isn't to discuss the pros and cons of different screwdrivers. Instead, I would rather suggest they consider using a hammer because that is going to be a better tool for pounding a nail than any screwdriver. But they didn't ask about a hammer, did they? My point is that you can't take some people's questions at face value. Sometimes we need more info.

What if the best method of accomplishing the OP's task is not to use any additional hardware at all, but rather to ingest the video files into his computer and spit out audio-only files (one for each clip) that matches the original video files in every way except the video has been stripped off. It would take about 5 minutes to batch process hundreds of files and be far, far, easier and bullet-proof with no extra gear needed on the shoot. Would that work for the OP? I have no idea because we don't know the actual reason for his post. It might be the perfect solution to his problem, or it might be totally wrong for reasons he has not given.

Furthermore, if what he really needs are transcripts of dialog, then probably no audio files are needed at all in 2025.

You said you don't need any additional info. So, will a software-only solution work for him. Yes or no?
 
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I know there's a temptation to be the one with the "best" answer but you should relax a bit. First people who start such threads often don't tell you what they're doing or supply enough information. Further more they often want to do something non-standard that doesn't make sense. Finally in this type of field you need to be resourceful enough to figure out your own answers. Usually the person already knows what they want to do and are going to do that despite getting the best advice one could possibly imagine.

So just say what your best practice is and don't make it into a competition.
 
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