FS7: looking for an all-in-one doku lens like the 18200

Clermond

Clermond

Veteran
I sold the FS700EK with the 1st gen set lens and need a all-in-one doku lens. I need a working AF solution, so any Metabones/Canon combo is out of the race.
The SEL-P28135G is definitely not wide enough. As the lens correction of the SEL-P18105G E PZ works only in HD it's no option either.

What's on the list:
- Sony SELP18200 new version
- Sony SEL-1670Z F4/16mm - 70mm . Might be to short with 70mm and I have no idea if AF works fast enough

Did I miss sth? Can anybody give me a feedback for the 1670Z? Thanks in advance.
 
The lens you want doesn't exist. The closest is the 28-135mm f4 but it's slow and not ultra wide.

So either shoot stationary objects, practice manual focusing/get a focus puller, or start taking classes in budget lens design.
 
I use 3 lenses I already have:
Canon 17-40 f4 L
Sony/Ziess 24-70 f4
Canon 70-200 f2.8 L
These 3 are very sharp and work very well, I also use the Canon 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L a lot on the 7, very nice..

They do a great job, but I also kept my 18-200 from the 700 if I really need just one lens. Not good enough for 4K though. And these are lenses I already own

If I am really running and gunning I use my EX3 with the kit lens, just HD though.
 
Ben Scott said:
The lens you want doesn't exist. The closest is the 28-135mm f4 but it's slow and not ultra wide.

So either shoot stationary objects, practice manual focusing/get a focus puller, or start taking classes in budget lens design.
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yes it does exist.
It's the 18-200 or the 16-70 Zeiss or sth I might have missed. If there is nothing I have missed my question was: does AF on the 16-70 Zeiss work fast and proper enough. I had the 18-200 and it worked. Not fast not super sharp but it worked.
 
olof said:
.. but I also kept my 18-200 from the 700 if I really need just one lens. Not good enough for 4K though. .
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thanks Olof. I would have liked to keep the 18-200 too but the buyer asked for it and I was happy that the FS700 is finally sold. So it went away.
How does the AF and the OSS perform on the 16-70Z compared to the 18-200?
 
Clermond said:
yes it does exist.
It's the 18-200 or the 16-70 Zeiss or sth I might have missed. If there is nothing I have missed my question was: does AF on the 16-70 Zeiss work fast and proper enough. I had the 18-200 and it worked. Not fast not super sharp but it worked.
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AF doesn't work fast enough on any stills lens to be a viable Doc lens in my opinion.

The new 18-200 is crap with 4k and fairly shoddy looking anyway and also isn't constant aperture

The 16-70 Sony isn't really a Zeiss at all, it's f4 and really has below average performance - http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/901-sony1670f4oss

If you're willing to overlook that in exchange for focal length and AF then fair enough. I wouldn't touch either of them with a 6ft bargepole.
 
Clermond said:
Did I miss sth? Can anybody give me a feedback for the 1670Z? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I have this lens and I like it for what it is. It's a bit expensive new i.e. not great value for money so I bought a secondhand one quite cheaply.

16-70 is a very useful range 16mm has a bit of distortion but from 18-70 it is very acceptable. Autofocus is nimble enough but the FS7 hunts around a bit so you can't use push auto mid shot without an obvious focus pop. The focus ring has a reasonable "connect" feel despite being infinite, much better than the SEL18-200 which is shite.

It's light and well built optically it's OK not a world beating bokeh monster but I think it works nice a docu lens where there's a lot of action to follow and you want to frame up and quickly push auto focus. The lens is not parfocal.

The 18-200 range is problematic but the more lenses you use to cover that range the better you will do it. Try and cover than range with one lens and you end up with the cruddy SEL18-200. The number of lenses you use will depend on the work you're doing and whether you have the time for lens changes. I use 3 zooms and a couple of primes plus some assorted vintage crap for low contrast and flares.


HTH
 
Ben Scott said:
The 16-70 Sony isn't really a Zeiss at all, it's f4 and really has below average performance - http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/901-sony1670f4oss

If you're willing to overlook that in exchange for focal length and AF then fair enough. I wouldn't touch either of them with a 6ft bargepole.
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I think there's a lot of variability in the samples because I don't find the 1670 objectionable either that or I'm not the lens connoisseur I hoped I was..

It is what it is it's a useful range with AF but don't buy it new because it's not worth the very high asking price.
 
Well that's another big issue with stills lens manufacture. Lack of consistency between copies of the same lens. I know people who have gone through 4-5 Canon L 24-70s to find a decent one.

As for being a connoisseur, I guess it simply comes down to what you want to see in your images.
 
Thanks for the detailed feedback, Nirv. very helpful! My situation is indeed that I am quite often in a very dusty environment where lens changing becomes quite a risk aside from lack of time. I have been looking for both lensed used but here in Germany they seem quite rare on the market.

(I also own 3 CP.2 primes but the doku job is a totally different matter)
 
Clermond said:
Thanks for the detailed feedback, Nirv. very helpful! My situation is indeed that I am quite often in a very dusty environment where lens changing becomes quite a risk aside from lack of time. I have been looking for both lensed used but here in Germany they seem quite rare on the market.

(I also own 3 CP.2 primes but the doku job is a totally different matter)
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I certainly wouldn't suggest the 1670 for A Grade work but docu stuff where capturing what's going on is more important than aesthetics it's fine.

Your other option is a speedbooster and a 24 - 105 ish from either Canon or Nikon if you want better IQ.
 
Ben Scott said:
Well that's another big issue with stills lens manufacture. Lack of consistency between copies of the same lens. I know people who have gone through 4-5 Canon L 24-70s to find a decent one.

As for being a connoisseur, I guess it simply comes down to what you want to see in your images.
Click to expand...

I'm no connoisseur just a pragmatist. I just buy lenses for certain level of jobs, the 1670 fits a job, better lenses I've got fit better jobs. But I have an affliction for buying Russian junk off Ebay for the so rubbish it's great look.
 
I own a set of 'good enough' modded Contax Zeiss glass that also has a ton of character and great resolution/coatings.

I've also owned (and probably currently own) a ton of speciality glass like old Russian stuff or Lensbabies or even Dogshchidt Optiks etc for having fun with.

If I need proper cine glass I'll rent it but I have a base level of image quality I'm not interested in shooting below. I'm sure we all do, to varying degrees. I do prefer manual primes (although have 2x manual Zeiss zooms) I have never missed the shot because I wasn't using AF and I haven't missed the shot because I was on the wrong lens.

Appreciate everyone's needs are different. The Sony 18-200 is not, to my mind, a professional quality of equipment.
 
For times when I just need a light lens that covers a good focal length at a contstand aperture I use the Sony 18-105. In HD the FS7 can correct the distortion. no luts with distortion correction on but usually for this type of work I'd use a hypergamma anyway. Really I don't use it that often as I prefer to set up shoots where I can control more and use my better lenses but it is handy to have and is light as hell. The lens of compromises.

I have to say I absolutely. Hate all focus by wire lenses so the 18-105 is the only sony lens I have.
 
i doubt we will ever see a 4/5/6K lens with a reasonable fixed fstop covering such huge range.....
i really, really like the 28-135 but really really wish it was wider...but that would make it larger, heavier, much more expensive and probably not a fixed f4 or just not as good optically....why sony decided to make it 35mm FF is another question....things to come i guess....
i do like the sony 16-35 f4 but manual focus is a real challenge....but i usually leave AF on with that one and it works pretty ok....
the canon 17-55 is IMO the best lens in that range, almost covers 5K on red epic (the wide end gets in the way a little)....55 is not really long but everything else is a trade off in quality....IS and fixed 2.8....and optically probably better then the 24-105....
 
Where exactly does the 18-200 fall apart for 4K and how do you know without a 4K monitor.
Do you need top stop down to a certain f-stop ?

I just shot some run and gun exteriors with it and thought the stuff looked great and I loved having IS and auto focus because i was following around a 2 year old on a playground - but I wasn't looking on a huge monitor. I don't have one to test it with.
The only shots I was unhappy with were at the long end of the telephoto but I may have missed the focus point.

BTW - I recommend the Tamron 24-70. Sharp Clean and very good IS - which seems to be saving my shakey butt a lot these days.
 
I'm in the same boat here.

I use the Canon EF-S 17-55/2,8 IS on a regular Metabones adapter for my doco stuff.

For real run'n gun stuff, I'll use the "old" 18-200 without that servo zoom. I already did and
it was good enough anyway. I hate the fly-by-wire focus and the extruding front.
But for what it is, it's okay. The IS is much better than with the 16-70 and it parfocality is
no that bad either. I got away with some zoom shots when I didn't use f-stops bigger than f4.

It really doesn't make the FS7 shine, but it can work.

AF is really not that bad, but forget the push-AF thing, it's jumping first before focussing.
I will never use AF if I can't repeat the shot. Most of the time the lens stays in my bag
for safety reasons.
 
Ben Scott said:
I own a set of 'good enough' modded Contax Zeiss glass that also has a ton of character and great resolution/coatings.
Click to expand...

Do you know anyone in the UK doing modding that won't break the bank?

I went down the Nikkor AIS route because the adapters have aperture control but I've always like the look of the Contax Zeiss and if I could get a set of declicked zooms and primes I might be interested in acquiring some.
 
Ben Scott said:
The lens you want doesn't exist. The closest is the 28-135mm f4 but it's slow and not ultra wide.

So either shoot stationary objects, practice manual focusing/get a focus puller, or start taking classes in budget lens design.
Click to expand...

Or go with a smaller sensor, such as the Sony X70.
 
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