looking for a little guidance...

T

TEXAS VIDEO GUY

Active member
im getting the hvx very soon, hopefully before march 31st so i can get the free p2 card, and i want to be ready to shoot when i get it and theres a few spots where i could use a point in the right direction ...

1.nothing, m2, brevis, or other ? ive read up on them but im lost ... all im going to be doing is shooting music videos

2.i have an 8ft tall by 22ft wide greenscreen and 3 - 500 watt lights, wondering if these lights are going to do ? if not what do i need ?

3.will this tripod do for the hvx ? it says up to 11 lbs, and i read that the hvx is only about 6 lbs but i dont have a clue how heavy the brevis or m2 is

4.im going to be using premiere pro and after effects for the most part, wondering what most people prefer using for keying ? is there something else better worth buying ?

i guess thats it for now, thanks

oh yeah... and if theres anyone in the houston area with an hvx that wants to use a green screen and a vocal booth (pro tools le 7.0), drop me a message, i have almost no experience (with video, im decent with pro tools) so i think it would be a good idea to sit back and watch someone with some experience and soak it all up

 

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My opinions (for what it's worth or not):

Let's put it this way-- I've seen more robust lighting kits than the SV consumerish lights you show. Honestly, I would hire a gaffer to light your green screen properly.

I have a Sachtler tripod and would recommend Sachtler or the Cartoni that so many on this board seem to like. Again, this appears to be a consumer tripod.

Blue mike is a great piece of gear. If you are shooting music videos, I would hire a professional sound person to mike it properly.

I'm personally not a Premiere fan but if you are on the PC platform, I would strongly urge you consider Edius over Premiere.

In short, it's OK, IMHO, not to be a jack of all trades. If you are just getting started, concentrate on mastering one element first-- shooting your HVX to its best advantage. Learn from the other pros whom you hire to light and mike your shoot.

Ned Soltz
 
I agree with Ned. The lights you referenced are not very versatile. Do like Ned said, hire a professional to light your scenes or invest in a good Arri kit with a variety of lights, soft boxes, scrims, gels, etc. Also have a good dimmer board or individual dimmers for your lights will make them much more user friendly and provide better results.

As far as the tripod is concerned...while that tripod may be able to handle 12 poounds or so... it's extremely lightweight. Which means every time you try to make a move the tripod is going to move with you. Get a good set of legs and a good fluid head. And no not all fluid heads are created equal. I have a Vinten Vision 8 and a Sachtler DV8. Both are good and I recommend them both.

Hiring someone to do you sound while you shoot is the best way to go. You want to make sure both aspects of your productions are good. It's incredibly difficult to concentrate on both when you are working alone. Make sure the sound person you hire has the right gear.

I hope this helps.
Jim
 
thanks Ned and Jim

i wont be able to hire anyone for lighting or sound, im going to be working on most things by myself, sound isnt an issue though, the songs will already be mixed and mastered, im going to be shooting footage with the songs playing outloud and syncing up the footage to the song later

which arri lighting kit ? i see quite a few all around the same price and i really have no clue what most of the stuff thats listed in these kits are
http://www.arrikit.com/wst_page2.html ???

and whats a good sachtler tripod ? i looked through the different pages and didnt see the one you named Jim, and theres a bunch of them ...
http://www.sachtler.com/content.asp...5595948426A5959415F5A5A665D575E5657446A5A5E47

ill look into edius later, right now im just trying to get what i need to do some nice music videos

im still confused on the whole adapter thing, m2, brevis, or other ? and what to buy to do better keying if anything ... is there anywhere i can download free greenscreen footage to practice with ? or footage thats already been keyed ?
 
Im an Audio Guy who re-fitted himself for video many moons ago. The blue mic you have there is Georges for Voice overs and ambient room sound, but for mic-ing persons overhead, you'd be just as well off cranking the gain into oblivion on some Shure 57's. In other words, it will probably just be a boat anchor for most field productions. Get a good shotgun or some Lapels to start off with. Lapels like Tram50's and other 250 to 400 dollar price range lapels will pay themselves back in no time. I also find allot of use for the little Octava MC 012 mics from Guitar Center. They are a poor mans Neumann 184. Plus you can get different cap kits for them too. You can buy a pair, with Capsules for less than a single Neumann 184. They work OK for close proximity Overhead boom mic-ing on a budget.

If you are on a budget, Bogen makes some decent entry level tripods for under a grand. IMHO, the heavier the fluid head and sticks, the more smooth your shots will be. Nothing makes up for the lack of weight. With the bogen line, you can get heads rated for Cameras weighing up to 25 or 30 pounds, those will serve you well to get rolling with. They are a dime a dozen on Ebay. Just make sure they are in proper working order. The sticks and heads the others mentioned here are excellent, Im only speaking of saving money for startup costs while not investing in something that is disposable.

If you have the Flexibility of finances, I would recommend sticking to what you do best for the first couple shoots or more. You should run the audio and Hire a DP to do your shooting. If you give them a little extra, and tell them why, most will train you in as a DP. If not, just keep your eyes and intellect glued on everything they do. If your paying them well, and remind them that it is you rear end on the financial line, most will be glad to tell you what they are doing and why they are doing it. Be a pain, its your money right?

And yes, hire a Lighting person, they will make or break your production.

MagicCat.

Remember, no matter what you have at your disposal, be it Gear, Glitz, Flash or Cash, Content is King. (Blair Witch is living proof that content trumps all)
 
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MagicCat said:
it

If you give them a little extra, and tell them why, most will train you in as a DP. If not, just keep your eyes and intellect glued on everything they do. If your paying them well, and remind them that it is you rear end on the financial line, most will be glad to tell you what they are doing and why they are doing it. Be a pain, its your money right?

And yes, hire a Lighting person, they will make or break your production.

MagicCat.

Remember, no matter what you have at your disposal, be it Gear, Glitz, Flash or Cash, Content is King. (Blair Witch is living proof that content trumps all)
Click to expand...


As a DP. I must remind you Magic Cat, that yes it his his money, but its my skill and my time and my money that got me these skills. I or no other DP owes the customer nothing more than doing the job. I am not being paid to teach someone how to do my job. With the advent of cheap cameras and computers anyone that has a few bucks can now claim to be in business. Its in my opinion hurting the industry.

I had someone contact me with almost the exact same questions, in another city.

22 foot wide green screen, 8 foot high. thats an unusual green screen. Music video's hmm, thats a match too.

3 lights for a 22 foot greenscreen. I want to do it cheap and I want you to teach me how to do it, and not pay for it. I want to compete against you, and use you and your skills to train me.

LOL.
 
A 35mm adapter in no way helps you tell a story better.

Once you've made thousands of films and have exhausted all your non adapter possibilites then you should get one.

Sidney, If you can teach someone enough to be competitive with you in the time of a shoot, you didn't have that much to share.

Most of the mentors you've had probably had absolutely nothing to gain from helping you, for some reason they did.
 
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thanks MagicCat, im going to chcek those tripods out, im not too worried about the audio though, like i said the songs will be mixed and mastered and i'll just be syncing the video up to the songs when i edit

im going to just go ahead and buy an arri lighting kit once i figure out which one will be best for me,

and sidney ... chill out ...

Sidney Tawl said:
I am not being paid to teach someone how to do my job.
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actually if you read what you quoted ...

MagicCat said:
If you give them a little extra, and tell them why, most will train you in as a DP. If not, just keep your eyes and intellect glued on everything they do.
Click to expand...

that would mean you were getting paid to teach someone how to do your job, and he even said if not then just keep your eyes and intellect glued on everything they do

and sidney ... dont judge me, i have 3 lights because thats all ive needed in the past, i just wanted some direction and i got that, so thanks people

and Arson ...

Arson said:
Sidney, If you can teach someone enough to be competitive with you in the time of a shoot, you didn't have that much to share.

Most of the mentors you've had probably had absolutely nothing to gain from helping you, for some reason they did.
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you read my mind
 
I understand your feelings Sydney, I did not mean to offend you. I thought that may rub someone the wrong way and I did not mean to open up a can of worms. I own an established production and marketing company. I do see the kids out there with palmcorders and PC's trying to get into my industry. Especially on Cable TV with these darn 300 dollar commercials, and most reflect your outlook I might ad. The truth is, they dont bring the clients returns and the cable company takes them off thier production list after a while. You cant stay in business and remain an amateur.

My personal 1st rule of business, Keep your friends and family at a distance if you want to keep them in your life :-), Invite your competition out for dinner and a show, OFTEN.

If the other person here wants to learn, I believe he should be given an honest chance at the market. You yourself may even need him one day. What goes around comes around. Lord knows there is plenty need for quality help out there.

IMHO, I say the following with much respect to you.


Dont forget, if you can teach someone a trade, then dont lose sight of the constant fact that you are already light years ahead of them, right?. Do you plan to stop learning yourself? If so, then you do need to worry.

Relax, you will always have years of experience on your students and new-b colleagues, no matter how hard they try. Its just simple Physics.

I might offer a tip of personal advise to you in my older years. Dont be too territorial, youll spend all your time worrying what the other guy is doing, meanshile someone will come in and steal your land out from under you.

Competition is good, Hell, I might need a job one day if an employee or untrained grip decides to suit me because he stuck his finger in a light socket. My intern could become my boss?!, you just never know..........

Whenever I work with someone, Im always be teaching them something . Its just the risk you take in this or any trade. The real question I ask myself at the end of the day is, what did I learn from them? If I didnt learn anything. I better get back in the ballgame or become a fan.

Humbly and Sincerely
MagicCat
 
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MC, (you posted a second message while I composed this) No problem. Its a rant granted, but, I think it needs to be said. I don't expect everyone to agree.



Lets see. We have a client that has three scoop lights. A 28 foot long green screen, 8 foot high. He is going to make music videos.

First, you can't light that screen with those lights, you can't fill the lens with the screen at that width and not see a crap load of floor and ceiling. Are you on a soundstage. What does this floor and ceiling look like. Now lets a add people. Whooops, I have used those whopping scoops and So I guess lighting people and instruments is going to be a tad rough. Whoops I need a 1000ASA camera to do the green screen.

How high is the ceiling in the room. Where can you put lights to light the screen. From the floor. and lets calculate what you need to light a 28 x 8 screen at say F4. Well you can't without knowing where the lights can go. However let me say. House power is not going to cut it. The rental of the cable to do the job is beyond their budget, much less the cost of a site survey, they want for free.

I;ve taught MC, in Rockport at the IFTV classes. Its closed now I hear. Though from teaching there, and seeing what was happening over the last several years. I know why, most likely. David wanting to sail the seas with his wife and friends, after making beacoup money, part of it. The other part is the students and the interaction between real professionals from the business and those taking the classes. Well it started to be "no" fun. I had an ASC professional lament to me about how the classes just werent fun like they used to be. I listened to a Producer of Sixty Minutes wonder why he wanted to keep coming back and put up with the attitudes he was getting from the students.

I was honored to be talking to these guys, and knew from my experiences in my "beginner" classes exactly what they were having to deal with. I learn each and every time I go out. From the pro's I work with, and from my experiments.

Its only getting worse. People think that this is easy. Well depends. Real production, lighting big screens and people etc. Well if you think a couple of scoops will do the trick. Well come on. This person hasn't taken the time to do any research, and wants advice.

You advice him to "work on" a pro and squeeze him for info. A bit dramatic, well perhaps. But I am running into this more and more.

Like I said the above scenario is very close to what someone that picked my brain.

What irked me. Was this. He wanted me to come out. Light it once. He wanted to take notes and "copy" what I had done. He then for the next two shoot or more would just rent the gear from me and do the rest all by himself. HE wanted to do it all after the first set up, lights camera, direct etc. Because the budget wouldn't take it. Why can't the budget take it. Why are they telling clients they can do this and make it happen for a X dollars. O yea, he had the room for three hours most for "set up".

Take "notes" and copy" how to light a 28 x 8 green screen, talent,. at my "rate". Ya know, help him out. Give a hand up to someone that wants to get into the "biz". They will take the work and show it as their own for the next job.

MC, forums are great. If you wish to share thats your business. When you tell the newbie that its his money and he has a right to know why I am doing what I do.


I carried sandbags in the nineties, and worked "swing".

I carried tons of cam lock 4/O and set up distro on 35mm features.

I learned all the tools and toys and how to rig, grip and more. I know when to call in someone better than me for rigging etc.

I have worked as a camera assistant, and know how to load, pull focus, and more.

I worked and learned each job in the grip/electric/ camera department. I did that so I would know the tools and the trade. I worked hard. Ever carry dollies up several flights of stairs. Push a dolly with exploding bottles around you (yea its cool) and have to make a perfect move to get out from behind the bar and make a hard turn and hit a mark.

I now operate for a DP, and do jobs on pro level. I get calls from people like the guy from Houston, and the guy from my home town with the very similar set of questions.

Like the students from Maine. They seem to have no respect for the knowledge and work it takes to learn what they wish to get for nothing.
 
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Arson said:
A 35mm adapter in no way helps you tell a story better.

Once you've made thousands of films and have exhausted all your non adapter possibilites then you should get one.
Click to expand...


This is a ridiculous statement! Directors have use dof to help tell stories since the beginning of the craft, it is an important cinematic tool.

Even Martin Scorcese hasn't made thousands of movies...
 
again Sidney ... chill out

Sidney Tawl said:
This person hasn't taken the time to do any research, and wants advice.
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ive researched and its easy to find articles on how to light a greenscreen with the lights i have, or easy to find articles saying that i need a super expensive lighting kit ... and ive done tests with my handycam, that worked ok, but i wanted to really be ready so i figured i should ask the people that use the hvx, and i got the answers i needed

again thanks people
 
SomewhereinLA said:
This is a ridiculous statement! Directors have use dof to help tell stories since the beginning of the craft, it is an important cinematic tool.

Even Martin Scorcese hasn't made thousands of movies...
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Advising a faily new filmmaker to worry about a 35mm adapter long before he has mastered even the fundamentals of filmmaking is like reading the flight control manual for an f-15 tomcat to study for your learners permit drivers license at 16 years old. Looking at the equipment he has he needs alot more other things before a 35mm adapter. A 35mm adapter is also useless without thousands of dollars worth of lenses and the experience to even know what each one is for.

But yes you are right, don't learn how to make good films and just buy a 35mm adapter instead. And Scorcese was shooting oscar winning films in grade school, he never had to learn it anywhere.
 
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I know this is going to annoy you TEXAS VIDEO GUY, but as someone who has shot a few music videos, I would strongly suggest that you don't shoot them on green screen. Anything but green screen...

Come up with a good idea and shoot it on location. The great thing about MVs is that you don't have to record any sound, which means you can shoot ANYWHERE.

The best music videos are ideas based. High budget MVs use green screen but the best low budget ones are shot in a suitable location. Trust me on this. Green screen has a number of uses, but music videos are not one - unless you have the right DOP, the right idea, and the correct background plates.
 
TEXAS VIDEO GUY said:
ye i got what you were saying, i cant wait to get it and get to practicing, i got a million and one things to get off my mind
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Something to watch out for: I ordered some green screen fabric that was supposed to be 10 feet high and 20 feet wide.

When I opened the box it was 10 feet wide and 20 feet high. I wasn't able to return it and am now stuck with it...

:-)
 
I helped shoot a music video on greenscreen in october, they rented a 40 foot green screen, kino flos, all sorts of arris and moles and the like, lights and equipment everywhere.

it wasn't lit properly - i brought it up but was ignored because these guy shad just gotten out of film school and knew it all. They rented my camera from me, i showed up to A/C and just help out generally. They were giving me crap for not doing things their way, and their degrees hadn't even arrived in the mail yet!

Now we're coming up to March and they still haven't finished. They're farming the work out to cother school kids to key and composite in exchange for copy/credit. The music video was supposed to launch by Christmas, who knows when it'll come out.

I guess all I could say is - you want to dream of the stars, but make things happen within your realm of control. If you're not familiar with greenscreen and don't know how to light for it, get someone else or shoot little BS things until you've mastered it - don't go in on someone else's project not knowing how to do it, or you'll end up pissing everybody off when it doesn't get done right, especially if it could have been more easily on set.

And if someone who's got the experience makes a suggestion, listen! Not saying you don't, but when someone speaks up, especially when they're in a position where they don't have to say anything, they're trying to do you a favour. They could sit on their hands and make the same amount of money anyways, but they care about the end result - these are the kinds of people you want to work with and make sure you listen.

Even though Robert Rodriguez can make feature films by himself in his basement, films are still ultimately a collaborative experience, and your film is only as good as its weakest part, so if there's something you're especially weak in, don't be afraid to get someone else. You can always learn that role for another movie.
 
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