Looking at HMC-150 - what else should I look at in this class?

G

GavinGear

Active member
Hi- I currently have a 7D and H4n that I use for everything I shoot. I'm wanting to have an alternative that would be used for a mixture of in-studio instructional video shots, interview shots, and outdoor shots that require AF.

One of the big selling points of going to a camcorder over my 7D would be workflow.

Here's what I'm looking for:
  1. 1080 30p
  2. Dual XLR inputs, good enough on-board preamp for DVD and Bluray (not feature film quality, specialty video quality) - no post production sync required for my in-studio shots that use lav mics
  3. Record onto SD cards
  4. Good AF for people shots and product shots
  5. HDMI out for use with monitor
  6. Moire-proofness (to an acceptable degree)
  7. Decent low-light (can use 7D and fast lens for real low light shots)
  8. Good power zoom
  9. Reasonably priced batteries/chargers/accessories
At this < $3000 price point, what else should I be looking at?

How does the AVCHD codec do for image quality and editability? I'm running a powerful Windows 7 system with Premiere Pro CS5 with mercury playback enabled... It does very well with my 7D h.264 footage at 1080 30p.

Thanks everyone!
 
If your setup does well with editing H.264 then AVCHD will be fine as well.

The HMC150's successors are out (ac130/ac160) but their autofocus is broken and the 150 is still a great buy, especially at $3k brand new. I don't know of any other camera with those features in this price range.

The battery that comes with the 150 is crap so make sure you grab at least 1-2 more.

The only other camera that comes to mind in this price range is the Canon XF100 but I'm not sure of its low light capabilities since it's only a single 1/3" sensor. However, with ample light the picture quality is apparently very good.
 
I would say the XF100 is comparable to the HMC150 in low light, but it doesn't handle as well (too many things are buried in the menu), no manual zoom ring, and in my opinion the HMC150 produces a better image out of the box without having to tweak scene settings or grade the image. In particular, the HMC150 is more contrasty and has nice color saturation. The XF100 footage reminds me of XHA1 footage except it's sharper with 4:2:2 color and generally much more maleable in post.
 
I am just gonna throw out that I recently was minutes away from buying an HMC150. Had the credit card out and the mouse hovering over the purchase button in my cart. I wanted a real camcorder that hit a certain price point that I could use to blend with my Canon T3i footage. I decided to hold off one more day. This was after 3 weeks of mulling over it. I was tempted to just get a Mark II. Then I found some videos of the Panasonic AG-AC160/130. That was what I was looking.

The footage looked substantially better to me than the HMC150. In addition, it has an insane 22x optical zoom and uses MOS sensor instead of CCD which I prefer the look, low light performance, and battery life of. I got an AG-AC130 for $3,595. It was a little more but am 100% happy with the choice. It looks better than my T3i which for the most part, I think a T2i/T3i looks just as good if not better than a HMC150. Here is a what I made the first day I got the camera a week ago. It is an example of what it can look like after color grading and post work. I am very impressed with how well the AVCHD holds up in post. I have more room for gading than I did with .mov file type my Canon gives me.


http://vimeo.com/34877927

By the way, I am new at using dvxuser.com. How do I embed a video in my post/reply rather than just posting the link? Thanks for any help with that info :happy:
 
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You mentioned in your original post the you need good AF. The AC130/160 have a broken AF system. Oh well, let us know how it works for you using AF.
 
" The AC130/160 have a broken AF system." - actually, I'm considering the AG-HMC-150, not the 130/160, although I will get them a look see...

What's wrong with AF on the AC130/160? Any issues with AF on the AG-HMC-150?
 
Hard to beat, frankly. I've been considering the same. If you can give up the SD card option (oh, and the HDMI port), the HVX200 fits everything you need and on eBay, they're flying off the shelves at stupid-cheap prices and still a fantastic camera. True, the P2 workflow is a pain in the ass - but gosh, it's hard to argue with the amount of data in that picture when it comes time to color-grade. If the SDHC card is a must and that's your pricepoint - I'd get the 150. No doubt about it.
 
ashclever said:
...By the way, I am new at using dvxuser.com. How do I embed a video in my post/reply rather than just posting the link? Thanks for any help with that info :happy:
Click to expand...

In the little set of tools above the box you post, there is a button that looks like a little film strip. Click on that, and a box pops up asking you for the link to the video. Fill that in and hit okay.
 
I haven't been very fond of the AF on the 150; I only shoot 24 or 30p with it though, the occasional 60p for slowmo. Just seems to hunt too much.

I'll likely trade up to the 160 before too long. I shoot a lot of T2i footage, but can't really agree it's same as the 150. Many times it is, but the moire can really leap up and hurt you bad with the T2i. And the 150 footage keys much, much better if you do much of that.

The 160 should kick the 150's butt for keying though - when you're zoomed in and dialing in a critical key, you can see a lot of artifacts that look to me like uprezzed issues, mushed up more with compression.
 
how is that acceptable that the 130/160 have broken AF. and what is being done to remedy this... seems like a major flaw and even if i dont use it. I dont want to shell out cash for a camera that cant AF
 
Hey thanks for the tip Mike on how to embed.

I have not done much with the auto focus yet as I almost always run manual. However, I will definitely start toying around with it to see if there is some problem. I have not noticed any difference between the 130 in comparison with my DVX100b's auto focus as of yet. Here is the video again actually embedded here int the post. Thanks again Mike for letting me know how to do that, lol.

This was all graded with Magic Bullets and the AVCHD held up great!

 
That's nice...however two major issues come to light:

1. One day you may need to use it for run and gun.
2. It will surely affect the resale value of the cam down the road.

If you live in Alaska and you buy a car with broken air conditioning, are you just going to say "well, I'll never use since I live in Alaska", or are you going to get it fixed on the off-chance you'll use it once or twice or you sell the car?

The fact is that it's a feature that works perfectly in $500 cameras but does not work in $5000 cameras.
 
jc10182000 said:
how is that acceptable that the 130/160 have broken AF. and what is being done to remedy this... seems like a major flaw and even if i dont use it. I dont want to shell out cash for a camera that cant AF
Click to expand...

First, I own neither the 130 or 160, only looking at them as a replacement for my HMC150 and compliment for my AF100 down the road.

If you look at the threads where the auto-focus issues (and it is an issue) is described, "broken" is a bit harsh of a term to use for it. The AF hunts for focus at inopportune times. As to how is it acceptable even if you don't use it, you just answered your own question. If I buy a product that has a feature that isn't up to snuff (not "broken"), but it's a feature that I *never* use, why do I care if it's up to snuff or not as it's irrelevant feature to me. Seriously, I haven't used auto-focus once on any of my cameras in well over 7 or 8 years. I don't care how good or bad the 130/160 auto-focus is, I'm never going to use it, and I'm not going to make a purchasing decision on the idea I might maybe someday possibly use it once. If you use and depend on AF then fine, that is definitely something you should factor in. But I don't, and neither do a lot of folks, so sub-par AF is a non-issue for me. That's all.

As to what is being to remedy it, someone posted somewhere in this section that Panasonic was looking into doing a firmware update to fix it. I think. Don't hold me to it as I don't want to go spreading false rumors since I can't remember the full context of it or where I read it, and I could very easily be wrong.
 
I will need to do some more testing to see if I have an auto focus issue. As of yet, I have not noticed one. I do agree however, that if there is one, that is terrible and there is no excuse for it.

Can you point me to a post or where info is that shows what the problem is so I can understand better what I need to be testing or looking for? Is this something Panasonic admits too and are they looking for a way to resolve the issue? Again, I am new to using DVXUSER.com so excuse me if I sound a little behind the curb on this info.
 
ashclever said:
Can you point me to a post or where info is that shows what the problem is so I can understand better what I need to be testing or looking for? Is this something Panasonic admits too and are they looking for a way to resolve the issue? Again, I am new to using DVXUSER.com so excuse me if I sound a little behind the curb on this info.
Click to expand...

Here you go, it's in the AC130/160 section...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...-look-like-an-Autofocus-Bug-to-You-Video-Clip
 
Thanks for the quick link. I see. Well like I mentioned before, Manual is how I almost always operate. I do hope they get the issue fixed for those rare circumstances where all of a sudden i need an extra camera man and have to use someone unfortunately not that experienced. It is rare but it happens here and there and that would be where it would be nice to be able to rely on the auto focus. This being said knowing that all auto focus out there is not gonna nail it.
 
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