Log & capture nightmares

G

gardy raymond

New member
I'm asking this mostly to see if it's a "that's the way it works" problem, or if something can actually be done about it. I've done a few forum searches (here and elsewhere) but haven' t found any posts that specifically address this...I'm working with FCS2 on an Intel iMac

I have all my settings correct - I'm able to view, log & capture, control the camera, etc. The problem that i keep running into is that once I let the computer do its thing for a batch capture, I always have a few clips that the computer can't find the timecode and shuts the whole thing down. It'll fast forward & rewind a few times, then it likes to fast forward to the very end of the tape, and when that happens, I have abort capture, eject the tape, turn the camera off then back on and reinsert the tape, and do a batch capture again, otherwise it keeps trying to fast forward (it needs that "reset" to stop). This has happened with a few different tapes (brand new), not just one.
The workaround I've been using is to make note of the clip that caused the problems, exclude it till the end of the rest of the batch (in case there are other trouble-making clips, which there usually are) and then change the in point on the rogue clip(s) and do another batch capture (this has yet to not work, knock on wood). Trouble is, this defeats the timesaving/automated aspect of a batch capture, as i have to keep a constant eye on it - I realize that I need to keep an eye on it anyhow, but this issue occurs so regularly that I'm hesitant to even go make a sandwich - something that i rarely had to worry about with SD footage shot and captured with a DVX100A. I've tried making all my in-points at second increments (ie/ 1:25:10;00) but that doesn't seem to make any difference. On an hour-long tape with 40-50 different clips, this happens with 4-8 of them.

The footage is HDV, 1080i60, shot with the Canon XH-A1, captured using the same camera. It doesn't seem to be a TC break issue (I never eject, rewind, etc when shooting, and I have my capture setting to ignore TC breaks on capture), just a random thing. So back to the top paragraph here - is this just an issue when working with HDV and/or capturing with the camera (can't afford a separate deck yet, but it's high on the list) or does anyone know what might be done to remedy this situation?

**OTHER NEW PROBLEMS**
Every time I try to capture, it's a new issue...during logging, final cut unexpectedly quits, approx 6-8 times per tape, most of the time while simply shuttling through footage. A THIRD ISSUE is that now with my most recent tape, i've logged the entire thing, and now while trying to capture, the camera cannot locate the timecode for 98% of the clips. i've tried resetting in and out points to no avail. i've tried adding handles to my capturing - no luck. i've trashed my prefs - nada. At this point, I am seriously wishing that i had plopped down the extra $2k for an HVX two months ago, and i've also learned the hard way what most people had already told me - Canon makes great still cameras, but s*#tty, awful, pain in the a$$ video cameras and i'm close to saying that i'll never purchase one again (though i'm sure it's also partially the result of working with HDV footage - oh the joys!).

Apologies for the very long post, the short rant, and the three different (but related) issues that it contains.

thanks for your time and any help!

-gardy
 
Hi Gardy

Actually Id say a lot of it is to do with your system. The way the footage is shot onto to the tape will not cause a FCP crash.

How much ram is in your system? Whats your HDD capacity and how much is currently free?

In addition to that, whats your shooting process? Do you use the end search function??

Happy A1 + FCP user here.

Most people told you Canon makes good still cameras and crap video cameras? Obvously not living on the same planet as me. At this price point, there is no better HD prosumer camera around.
 
thank you for your vote of confidence in this camera - been feeling a little foolish for assisting in the purchase of it recently.
i've been considering weather or not it's a system issue. i'm working on a 2.3GHz intel iMac with 2G of ram - that could certainly be an issue - capturing onto a 1T external firewire drive. However, i experienced the same unable to locate timecode issue using the same camera on a MacPro 2.6GHz quad core with 6G of ram and 3T of storage, though not to the extent that i was experiencing yesterday.
i'm going to experiment with some things today (trying another system, changing around my capture settings, shooting in SD) and see what happens. i'll let you know.

thanks again

-gardy
 
Can I make a simple suggestion?

Have you tried simply capturing entire tapes (from beginning to end of recorded timecode) with scene detection on?

I understand the logic of logging and batch capturing, but honestly I find it much easier to simply capture everything and log the clips in post, and of course delete what I don't want after the tape is ingested. This isn't simply making one giant clip and then creating subclips later--FCP will give you a separate clip for each start/stop of recording on the tape. FCP just captures it all and splits it up on the fly.

It'll save a whole lot of wear and tear on your camera if you have the spare disk space. (and disk space is so cheap these days) It may also save you some time overall compared to all the FF and rewinding while logging footage and then having to rewind/FF so much during a batch capture.
 
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thanks for your suggestion elton.
however, i'm afraid that that may end up causing me more work after the footage is on the computer. i shoot skiing and snowboarding and many times it takes the riders 5,10, 20 or more tries to land their trick, so being able to capture just what i can use before hand is quite helpful, not to mention that each rider needs their clips at the end of the season for individual sponsors, etc, so having each trick/clip labeled "scott_fs360", "John_boardslide" allows me to find their clips months later by doing a simple search.

one of the things i do to minimize wear & tear on my camera is to mark each clip while i'm shooting (hand in front of the camera for a few seconds if it's a clip i want to capture later) then log from the end of the tape to the beginning. That way, i can simply rewind, and when i see my hand, i set an out point, then the in, log it, and continue rewinding. when i do the batch capture, the tape is already at the beginning and the camera goes right through.

i may still try your suggestion, depending on the content of my tapes and how much of them i may be using. it is definitely a way to not have to worry about "unable to locate timecode"


also, doing some tests today, i have a preliminary finding - i'm still encountering the timecode error when i capture HDV footage (it does that little stutter search back and forth twice around where it should start playing, then it stops altogether) but i shot some test footage on the same tape regular DV and it captured like a dream. gonna try some more stuff tomorrow.

-gardy
 
TBH Im wondering if your external drive has the ability / throughput to capture. It may simply not be fast enough. What external drive are you using? It may be prudent also to set your capture scratch to the local hdd and then move the files over after for editing. Not ideal, but worth trying. I seriously doubt this caused by your camera.
 
Noel Evans said:
TBH Im wondering if your external drive has the ability / throughput to capture. It may simply not be fast enough. What external drive are you using? It may be prudent also to set your capture scratch to the local hdd and then move the files over after for editing. Not ideal, but worth trying. I seriously doubt this caused by your camera.
Click to expand...

I agree with Noel, it certainly doesn't sound like a camera issue but rather that external drive. They can cause a mess with firewire as I've learned from the schools firewire storage system. It does absolutely the same thing with my HD footage, it never seems to be able to find it and then once it reaches the end of the tape, it shuts off. Defiantly give a shot at capturing to your local disc because it solved my problem.
 
There might be problems with both the camera and the drive being on the same actual firewire bus, which usually makes the drive revert to 100 mbs FW mode.
 
Noel, 91st, & Elton nailed it. You're asking for trouble if you are using the built in FireWire 400 ports to connect the external HD and the camera at the same time. With this configuration, the HD & the camera are using a single limited data lane. In addition, like Elton said, when multiple FW devices are using the same bus, the global speed is often reduced to allow the slowest device to keep up.
Your cheapest option is capturing to your internal hard drive. If you want to keep the solution external, I'd suggest adding a PCIe SATA card (start at $50) to your Mac. Your current external HD may already have a SATA port that'll plug right into the card. It's pretty common nowadays.
Hope this helps
 
hey guys,
thanks for all your input so far. i set up a temporary scratch disk on my internal drive, disconnected my firewire (a Fantom BigDisk 1T) and gave 'er another rip...same problem. i only did a short test (about 6 clips over 3 minutes of tape) but the same error occurred as it moved on to the second clip. however, even if this doesn't solve the problem, i'm going to try to stick with just the camera being connected while i'm capturing - it can't hurt - and i've got a secondary machine that i use to capture, then i switch over to another one for editing, so i have plenty of internal drive space.
perhaps FW400 just isn't fast enough at all, regardless of what else is plugged in? gonna go shoot some more in a few hours, and try to capture a few different ways. i'll report back with anything i find.

thanks again

-gardy
 
Well I know someone who is capturing direct into an 17 inch imac with nor problem at all and its fine. Its an intel imac btw.
 
I'm sure you've considered these, but it can't hurt to check. Are you using a fresh tape, shot in it's entirety using the 60i frame rate you mentioned?
One thing I would definitely check is how your "Device Control Preset" (under Audio/Video Settings...) is setup in FCP. This controls how your camera communicates with the app. Some cameras are very picky about this setting. I don't know off hand the correct setting for a Canon XH-A1, but most cameras work fine with the broad FireWire Basic setting. However, if a more specific "Device Control Preset" is used and it doesn't agree with the camera, you will have some odd results while capturing.
 
hey there,
nope, not cracked or pirated software - full retail, legit version, legally installed.

i've been getting fine communication in terms of shuttling, setting in and out points, etc...

so, after a long and strange thread over on DVInfo.net, i've discovered (or was rather directed to) a solution that seems like it shouldn't work, but it does, and how!

so, the setup i'm successfully using with nearly zero problems is camera plugged into a FW drive, then the drive is daisy chained to the computer (cam>drive>computer) with nothing else plugged into the computer. I'm capturing to the internal drive to a temporary scratch disk, then transferring the footage to another external drive after capture.

camera finds the correct timecode point 98% of the time, FCP stopped crashing on me during logging. don't know why it's working, but for the past 4 or 5 tapes i've captured (yea, they've all been new, fresh tapes, 1080i60) things have gone like butter. So, if you've tried a bunch of other things and are still experiencing problems, give this a shot. a little bit of a pain, but way better than the alternative.

thanks to everyone who helped on this - i appreciate it all

-gardy
 
I've been having these same problems two. I have 19 hours of footage from a WWII doc and it's taken 2 nights to capture one tape. I'm working in 24F

I've been getting errors such as these:
Unable to locate timecode
Timecode break
Error in Stream
"searching for media"

At first I was worried it was the tapes, but after replaying a "dropped frame" the problem would never replicate in the same spot of the clip.

I thought my problem was isolated to 24F. I figured FCP was mistaking the camera's built in pulldown as dropped frames.
 
Anyone get to the bottom of this?

I used to be able to capture no problem but now I'mgetting missing gaps in the capture for no reason.

Seriously. No reason.

Is the camera at fault?

WTF?
 
I started having the same problem when working with longer clips. I was using 6.0.3, I just upgraded to 6.0.4 and haven't tried to capture yet
 
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