Live concert shoot, tips, tricks, basics, fundamentals

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bfsound

Well-known member
Hey guys, new here and im trying to learn as much about filming a live show as i can.

Like the title says any tips, tricks, basics and fundamentals you can share with me. About what i will be using,

most likely to start we will be using 2-3 camera's out front, and a few static stage handy cams, drum OH etc.. for exotic shots, Currently i have 1 PDX10 and im hoping to pick up a DVX100a and XL1s this week to see which i like best. And we have some small handy cams. Then im going to try and get 1 maybe 2 cobra jib cranes jsut to have them as well as a few nice tripods, LCd monitors and LANc controllers.

AS for the places we will film will be different everytime most often, so i will have to check lighting and stage etc... i will be able to kind of over see lights to make them go with our shots.

For audio we have a 48ch 2 way isolated splitter box, with leads for FOH and leads for our own 48ch digital mixer and computer DAW doing our own multi track recording which i can mix later on :) Im an audio engineer so i took care of that part and now im learning how to shoot.

Sorry for the long post i just wanted to cover my basics to help you guys help me!

Thanks, shane
 
Just out of curiosity, whats your splitter box called? Nice solution on the audio. As of now I'm using my ProFire 2626 audio interface to record audio from the different mixers. I usually run a cable from the mixers direct out into my ProFire, but your solution with a splitter and a digital mixer sounds good, although probably abit pricey..

A couple of tips on concert shooting from me:

- Camera movement is important and exciting. Dynamic pictures are key to holding on to the viewers interest.

- Consider investing in a vision mixer and an intercom system. No matter how good your cameramen are, the results are drastically improved when there's a director behind the levers. (It's a good idea to record both the output from the vision mixer AND all the cameras as well, gives you more room for mistakes and correcting stuff in post.)

- Basic camera operating knowledge is always good. Rule of thirds, eye direction etc.

Good luck!
 
alekstef said:
Just out of curiosity, whats your splitter box called? Nice solution on the audio. As of now I'm using my ProFire 2626 audio interface to record audio from the different mixers. I usually run a cable from the mixers direct out into my ProFire, but your solution with a splitter and a digital mixer sounds good, although probably abit pricey..

A couple of tips on concert shooting from me:

- Camera movement is important and exciting. Dynamic pictures are key to holding on to the viewers interest.

- Consider investing in a vision mixer and an intercom system. No matter how good your cameramen are, the results are drastically improved when there's a director behind the levers. (It's a good idea to record both the output from the vision mixer AND all the cameras as well, gives you more room for mistakes and correcting stuff in post.)

- Basic camera operating knowledge is always good. Rule of thirds, eye direction etc.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Tell me more about the vison mixer, Right now i do they're sound, lights, and manage two other crew, so it will be us three filming and id like a way to direct them and watch they're shots and say camera 1 has drums camera two take right guitar or whatever. The splitter box is something i put together using shockmount roadcase, an 8ch 2way isolated splitters rack mounted, expandable by 8ch at a time, and with snakes, cases, mixers, it's just shy of 10k probably. We also bring all our own stands, mic, and cables in case a house system comes up short :)

What are some thoughts on camera's currently i have two local leads on a used Xl1s and a DVX100a both mint, barely used, but there is a nice vx2100 i would like to get Vs, the XL1s im thinking... i know both are low light champs, but the dvx beats both hands down in other ways? I have a PDX10 i like and think the vx2100 would be a great camera?
 
From CNET they say the + for the VX is battery lfie, lowlight, image quality. And - is no pro audio connections, 24p, or HD.

Im thinking because of our recording rig no matter what camera, its audio is going to be dubbed with our multi track. and i dont need HD. And i honestly do not know how low of light we will be shooting in most of our shows should have a decent lit stage...

These are the - about the DVX from CNET:

Of course, nothing is perfect, and the DVX100A has its shortcomings. Image quality is less impressive in low light, especially if you're not shooting interlaced video. The camera loses about a stop in progressive mode, and the gain is not particularly clean.

But for 24p its best in its class hands down which i care most about is image quality, but read that 24p has to be edited in 29. whatever timeline in FCE, can other versions of FC edit 24p in a 24p timeline?
 
One of the fundamentals is to have a shooting plan and make sure all your camera operators know what the plan is and their part in it. The reality is that people who've been used to shooting on their own and not as part of a multi-camera crew often find it difficult to concentrate on just what is required from them and tend to shoot all over the place as if their shots are the only ones. Not everyone can shoot the lead singer! somebody has to have the wide shot! and so on.
 
ceejay7777 said:
One of the fundamentals is to have a shooting plan and make sure all your camera operators know what the plan is and their part in it. The reality is that people who've been used to shooting on their own and not as part of a multi-camera crew often find it difficult to concentrate on just what is required from them and tend to shoot all over the place as if their shots are the only ones. Not everyone can shoot the lead singer! somebody has to have the wide shot! and so on.
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Good advise! Any camera suggestions?

Im mainly stuck between the dvx100a, xl1s, xl2, and vx2100. All have + and -

But for live shooting which would be top contender and the runner up?
 
It's not 100% clear to me from your posts but stick to one camera system. You'll have a devil of a time matching cameras from different manufacturers and you're asking for problems in edit.

Other than that, watch A LOT of concert DVD's, have someone keep an eye on all you're gear while shooting, get headsets, lots of batt's, and a wide angle adapter for your wide shot. Hire a PA to run batt's and tapes to the camera guys and you should be fine.

Oh yeah, see if you can get a common slate before the taping starts.

Cheers.
 
Lots of cameras and mics. Using one brand for the cams is good advice unless you know they will work together. Don't forget the grey card.
 
bfsound said:
So how come 60i is better for live performance (ie. concert) vs 24p?
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That wasn't the question. If you're trying to match different cameras, the implementation of standard 50 (60)i is generally more consistent than assorted flavours of 25 (24)p.
 
Speaking of intercom system, any suggestions on what could be a wireless system full duplex party-line, that wouldn't break the bank and still do the job for a crew of three total, including the director? Doesn't have to be for beyond the line of sight communications. Will be used in a medium size theather or approx. 500 feet.
Thanks.
 
Yea i was hoping someone could help me put together a way i can monitor what my camera men are shooting and communicate with them on shots, pans, zooms, etc...

I looked at video mixers but i know nothing of the sort.

When i looked up DV mixer the most common one a saw was this:

Videonics MX-1 NTSC Digital Video Mixer.

Any info on a mixer, and monitors to get and how to hook it all up, and a good 2 way communication with my guys. I only need to monitor 2-3 cams and talk to 2-3 guys.

Thanks in advance
 
So i just read a quick article on video switching live.

I will be using 2 dvx100A's and a pdx10. I know i need good quality video sends from camera to mixer. What are some good sites or cables to get? id like to have 100' ers.

Other than the mixer: Videonics MX-1 NTSC Digital Video Mixer

What are soem good monitors to get? a primary and maybe 2 others?

And do you have to record out to VCR or can i go to a HDD or some other recording device?

Thanks
 
I would recommend datavideo products over the videonics. In my experience they last longer and are more reliable. My suggestion for a super budget rig would be along the lines of:

Switcher: Datavideo HS-500 Suitcase Studio - A budget unit but for the price it is solid. It includes monitor as well as a case and switcher.

Then for recorders you have a few options, If you are recording a number of gigs I recommend going tapeless.

Datavideo DN-300 Recorder A reliable desktop recorder that records to hard drive

If you want to record each of the streams individually you should buy however many cameras you have + 1 to record the final mix. Each unit has a loop-through so you can plug the raw feed into the recorder and then the output to the switcher.

For intercoms I like ear-tec. Their budget line works pretty well.
Eartec4 Simutalk 4G w/ Single Ear Headset

But I think that with a great audio rig you should really consider spending some more and getting a more professional rig.

Also on the camera tip I also would recommend that you consider the Canon XL2 along with this kit.
Camera: Canon XL2
Battery (1 or 2x per camera): Canon Battery
Zoom Control: Varizoom LANC Controller
Tripod: Personal Preference I like manfroto but I am sure that you know what you like.
Case: Again preference but I really like hard pelican cases for my gear and there is a custom xl2 insert

If you need anymore help feel free to pm me.
 
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