Lightwars - Low light video GH1 versus 5D

Barry_Green said:
Having done a million comparisons, I can guarantee you that no settings will please everyone.

If you leave it as neutral, people will say "that doesn't represent what the camera's capable of, only what the default settings are."

If you attempt to optimize it, someone will say "but you didn't do it right, you messed it up."

If you attempt to get them to match, people will say "what's the point -- why not show how they can be different? Showing them the same doesn't prove anything."

The only people who usually agree with any given testing methodology, are those whose favorite camera happened to "win" that particular test...
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you could offer a free peanut butter and jelly sandwich to everyone from each test and there's always going to be someone unpleasant with the results.

my perspective is if you're going to test the camera's, make them equal in settings. that way there's no difference in them other than the person who's using the camera's. so the end result is every test is relative.
 
commanderspike said:
... a good HD plasma gives better colour and contrast and a wider colour gamut than even the best computer LCD monitor. I'm sorry, but that is a irrefutable industry fact.
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And my CRT broadcast monitor positively stomps all over the best plasma money can buy... Trust me, plasmas are hideous - do not use them as reference monitors. They are end consumer devices with a lot artificial visual sweetening added on to make people think 'oh shiny'. Just like you do now. Before you try to master me with 'industry facts' you should know I've worked in the 'industry' longer than you've lived. If we are gonna play the authority card here. Which I recommend you don't as it's rather pointless.

Again, colour correcting a compressed frame in JPEG format on a LCD screen is no substitute to viewing the full HD feed direct from the camera on a 50 inch HD plasma. I made sure colour and shadow detail were at their maximum on the GH1. The 5D was actually toned down in-camera. This was after experimenting with all the different in camera settings. I don't think it's sloppy testing.
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And again, pretty please with sugar on top - what you are testing by this method is just as much the playback capabilities of the cameras. Not what's actually in the video files and how much it can be treated for final product. Which is a good deal more important for cameras as film making tools. So yes, when you come to subjective conclusions and opinions based on this and state it as hard facts you end up sounding very sloppy.

Regarding the darkness of the 5D's shadow detail, that's because for some reason the footage looks darker after being pumped through my Mac. Especially in Quicktime. Less so in FCP. But the Mac does something strange to the 5D's H.264 footage's gamma. I'll try and solve this issue in future.
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Oh my - you post these pictures as 'proof' for and then you admit you don't have control over them and don't know how to set up your system. How on earth are others supposed to be able to judge your statements then? This is the epitome of sloppy. I do applaud your enthusiasm and energy but you should really bring it down a notch or two. Both how you present your findings and how you adress others here.
 
commanderspike said:
I will try various modes next time, but one thing I should mention was that this WAS an optimised test based on prior experiments to see which mode maximised the GH1's picture quality. It wasn't vibrant straight out of the box, rather vibrant with contrast -2 and colour +2, yet the 5D still beat it on colour and contrast (when viewing the footage back on the 50 inch plasma), that strange JPEG frame grab Macbook gamma issue aside (which I am working on to correct).
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Ok, however Vibrant is shifted very high in the other direction and it's tonal curve is super extreme. So -2 anything still has it way beyond all the other filmmodes, and has almost zero effect. Either shoot Standard ( 1 ) or Smooth ( 4 ), not Vibrant for this kind of test.



Oh,

Trying to match the GH1 to the 5D or in reverse, would be like trying to match Agfa to Fuji or Kodak 35mm film or vice versa. Why? The characteristics of these film stocks are all very different; and no one in there right mind would think of trying to match them to an equal level; and when not successful at least even think of complaining about it.

Video cameras etc with different senors and company image philosophies wouldn't be any different..............



.
Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
 
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Has anyone tried testing the GH1 after removing the silver strip on the handle? I'm pretty sure that thing impedes low light performance.
 
Ben_B said:
Has anyone tried testing the GH1 after removing the silver strip on the handle? I'm pretty sure that thing impedes low light performance.
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It actually blows out the highlights and creates an absurd amount of static electricity that triggers mud.
 
To me, the GH1 produces far better images. the 5D looks like color corrected, saturation pushed images that have come out of post production. The GH1 is crisp, clean, brilliant, and gives you a lotta room to play. It seems to me like the 5D is doing too much in camera or something. Every time I see a 5D image it looks like the blacks are just being overdone, or overtaking the image, and the colors just seem outta wack to me.
 
The only reason you have an opinion like that is because you have eyes that see. Some people just glance, even when they stare at a film. Anyway I agree, and wonder if the Canons will produce viewer fatigue. Of course, I am the heretic that returned a 7d for a GH1 - talk about going against the "wisdom" of the crowds. Only time, and whatever film appears, will tell if it was the right decision.


Revsta said:
To me, the GH1 produces far better images. the 5D looks like color corrected, saturation pushed images that have come out of post production. The GH1 is crisp, clean, brilliant, and gives you a lotta room to play. It seems to me like the 5D is doing too much in camera or something. Every time I see a 5D image it looks like the blacks are just being overdone, or overtaking the image, and the colors just seem outta wack to me.
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thanks for the test..In my eyes, from what I have seen here and in other clips the only main thing that 7d is better at reducing the noise and banding in underexposed areas (esp. at higher ISO) , to me this is the main issue of the GH1, everything else to me can be worked around, this is what I'm wishing for from Panasonic in the next firmware, somehow to have better performance in underexposed areas and higher iso 400 -1000 ,maybe? i can only wish... For those who know, why is more of an issue on the gh1 than its on the 7d for example, what does the 7d have to reduce that banding that the gh1 does not..
 
I agree with PappasArts.

I also think the GH1, despite being in vibrant, appeals to my eye much more than the 5D here.
 
philiplipetz said:
The only reason you have an opinion like that is because you have eyes that see. Some people just glance, even when they stare at a film. Anyway I agree, and wonder if the Canons will produce viewer fatigue. Of course, I am the heretic that returned a 7d for a GH1 - talk about going against the "wisdom" of the crowds. Only time, and whatever film appears, will tell if it was the right decision.
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Hehe. The way I see it is if you have too many blacks, it's difficult to get something watchable. Oversaturation is tiresome, and the 5D screams oversaturation in the images posted thus far. I'd rather have a brighter, crisper image to work with, tap up the saturation a bit, bring down the gamma, if I want the effect. I compared a lot of images before I bought my GH1. I just prefer it. I think the image you start with is less played with, and that's good for me.
 
I am guessing, but aliasing could create false detail that covers CMOS problems. Not sure, anybody know?



sammysammy said:
thanks for the test..In my eyes, from what I have seen here and in other clips the only main thing that 7d is better at reducing the noise and banding in underexposed areas (esp. at higher ISO) , to me this is the main issue of the GH1, everything else to me can be worked around, this is what I'm wishing for from Panasonic in the next firmware, somehow to have better performance in underexposed areas and higher iso 400 -1000 ,maybe? i can only wish... For those who know, why is more of an issue on the gh1 than its on the 7d for example, what does the 7d have to reduce that banding that the gh1 does not..
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