Lightwars - Low light video GH1 versus 5D

Peter J. DeCrescenzo and Issac_Brody are considerably noisy. They need a firmware update :)

Barry Green has less moire but a bit more noise. He is also a lot smaller and more portable.
 
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CONCLUSION
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I have decided to keep the GH1. It's more cinematic.

The 5D's image is simply too sparkly and colourful to be considered 'film' like.
 
would like to see some of these tests repeated with intelligent exposure set to high, as I have found this can bring back a lot of detail that can be lost in the shadows when there is also significant highlights
 
To give you an idea of the gap in image quality between the 5D & GH1:

The 5D at ISO 1600, F2.8 matches the picture quality of the GH1 at ISO 320 F1.4, if not exceeds it.

(By picture quality I mean only detail, colour, dynamic range)

Full frames from FCP:

Download GH1 at F1.4 with Leica 25mm, ISO 320
Download 5DM2 at F2.8 with CY Zeiss 50mm, ISO 1600

With both cameras at ISO 320, F2, the difference is a lot less but the 5D still wins.

Now balance this with cost, usability, design, small size, lenses and your own needs then you can make an informed decision on the GH1 versus 5D I hope. Every decision in life is a compromise.

RE: inteligent exposure. This lowers contrast and boosts shadow areas using some ISO trick. As much as it boosts detail it hurts the image too, by introducing noise and fixed pattern banding. So I recommend that you turn that off and set contrast to -2 (boosts shadow areas), saturation to +2 and noise reduction to -2 when shooting in poor light at high ISOs.

What's unavoidable though is that colour and detail in the shadows on the GH1 suffers badly, turns grey, goes muddy. Nothing can be done for that. It's the only short coming of what is an otherwise amazing sensor. It's cutting edge and Panasonic simply could not have done any better with the current CMOS sensor technology for this price, with this form factor.

Noise levels on the GH1 at high ISOs are very good even with NR -2. The 5D actually has as much as if not more noise but it's of a finer grain.
 
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Took this note awhile back, but have no idea where it came from:

"Interestingly while most similar features on other cameras aim at increasing the level of highlight detail Panasonic is much more concerned about the shadow areas in your image. Intelligent exposure slightly increases sensitivity (even if you have set it to a fixed value) and then modifies the tone curve to lift the shadows.

This is exactly what's happening in our sample shot which we shot at ISO 100. When Intelligent Exposure is set to 'High' the GH1 increases ISO to 160 at the same shutter speed and aperture and adapts the tone curve. In the resulting image the shadow areas have been lifted but the highlight areas look virtually identical to the standard shot, so don't expect to reduce blown highlights by activating Intelligent Exposure."

I made the mistake of having this activated while doing a sunrise time-lapse (stills). Once it got bright enough, it totally blew out the sky trying to boost the shadows.
 
Yes that's exactly what it does. Good work Kerplunk.

It's one of those consumer auto-features we pros can do without.

PS for those missing this as it's last post on previous page, here are the frame grabs illustrating exactly what size of rendering gap between the 5D and GH1 there is

Full frames from FCP:

Download GH1 at F1.4 with Leica 25mm, ISO 320
Download 5DM2 at F2.8 with CY Zeiss 50mm, ISO 1600

I found that comparison quite interesting because it helps quantify in ISO and F stops exactly what the gap between the GH1 and 5D's dim light image quality is. In fact the 5D still wins out on colour even though it's noise is obviously higher.

Now it's worth mentioning that the 7D also does very well at high ISOs in video mode. The only difference between the 5D is that the dynamic range is slightly higher and it's a full frame 35mm sensor (better for your 35mm lenses).
 
the 5d is a monster in terms of low light IQ. I had the same tossup, image quality vs all round versatility, 5d or GH1. My final choice was the gh1 which I will hopefully be getting next week, stick with it and learn as much as I can until they super revolutionise these video dslr's or untill they release a full frame with pivot screen..ha

You have started with the gh1, learned alot from it so i guess the next obvious progression is image quallity? how often has the gh1 stealthier form factor played a part in your filmings? I was wowed by how small it was.

Another thing I'd like to know is when was the last time you used the auto stock lens? how often do you really use it? I have been asking myself this alot, I've started my zeiss prime collection, will I use the stock lens anymore? I dunno.

The 5d in taiwan is so cheap too..ha A pretty bad effort in convincing you to keep the GH1 hey. All I know is I will eventually move up to something better(full frame), and hopefully it will have an articulated screen =)
 
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MR Fanny said:
the 5d is a monster in terms of low light IQ. I had the same tossup, image quality vs all round versatility, 5d or GH1. My final choice was the gh1 which I will hopefully be getting next week, stick with it and learn as much as I can until they super revolutionise these video dslr's or untill they release a full frame with pivot screen..ha

You have started with the gh1, learned alot from it so i guess the next obvious progression is image quallity? how often has the gh1 stealthier form factor played a part in your filmings? I was wowed by how small it was.

Another thing I'd like to know is when was the last time you used the auto stock lens? how often do you really use it? I have been asking myself this alot, I've started my zeiss prime collection, will I use the stock lens anymore? I dunno.

The 5d in taiwan is so cheap too..ha A pretty bad effort in convincing you to keep the GH1 hey. All I know is I will eventually move up to something better(full frame), and hopefully it will have an articulated screen =)
Click to expand...

Stealthier form factor: hasn't played a part yet in terms of stealth. But it's nice to have something so small because of portability and handling, plus steadicams cost less.

Zeiss prime lenses are one of the driving forces in favour of the 5D and the only time I've used the kit lens is on holiday for photos (versatile range) or on the steadicam to use AF tracking for moving actress versus moving camera. But the GH1's codec made a hash of that and to be honest the AF tracking didn't work that great either.

Some of you have noticed the lines on the ISO 320 shot. I didn't at first and it's not typical banding, but I have a feeling it's probably the same thing. The usual fixed pattern CMOS stuff. Notice it on the back wall between the windows but not on the lampshade or Macbook.

The 5D's evil GH1 thrashing image quality has left me with a real heartache here. I wanna keep the GH1 but can't believe how beautiful the 5D's output can look. The problem is, I may just end up with a heavy brick that can only be stuck on a tripod and causes stuff to go out of focus the moment an actress moves slightly. It needs very careful handling to get the best out of it, unless you have a very deep DOF wide angle lens.
 
My advice is to do whatever you need to do to figure out a way to keep both. The angst you seem to be suffering can only be relieved in this way. Otherwise, you will be forever lamenting whatever choice it is you make. And we will all be forever hearing about it.:laugh:
 
One outdoor good light test today and I'll make up my mind :) But I hope this thread has been handy for those wondering about how they compare, especially on image quality.
 
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