Light Meter

Ryan E. Walters said:
....until I'm as talented as some of the top ASC guys who can just light by eye and not even bother with a meter. :)
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As far as I can tell form reading Roger Deakins posts on his site... he meters... so... does that mean he's not a 'top ASC' guy... maybe it's the BSC influence...

On the other hand any idiot... well, given they've been told... can 'estimate' Sunny 16...

But I do think there is a bit of difference between the way I've been shooting stills for so very long and how 'movie making' photography goes...

I will adjust F-stop/sutterspeed to the given lighting... since I 'mostly' shot available light, or perhaps with 'flash' fill, unless dead of night...

But for film, I have a set of settings in my... F/5.6 for my GH-1 Panasonic 14-140 lens, and a shutter speed of 1/50 (or 1/60).

Given that setup, one has to determine the light falling on scene elements, and then add or subtract as required to be within the limits of the camera. Now it is possible to stand by the monitor perhaps and with hand gestures or whatever, say 'add here' or there... but on a set it seems more straightforward to just be at the place light is needed, and meter.

The monitors are great for 'confirmation' of the lighting, relative to the camera characteristics... but then so is 'display' LUT adjustment on set... but is it an absolute requirement... I don't think so.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
As far as I can tell form reading Roger Deakins posts on his site... he meters... so... does that mean he's not a 'top ASC' guy... maybe it's the BSC influence...
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Ha ha! Touche. :) I did say some, as in not all. :)

j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Given that setup, one has to determine the light falling on scene elements, and then add or subtract as required to be within the limits of the camera. Now it is possible to stand by the monitor perhaps and with hand gestures or whatever, say 'add here' or there... but on a set it seems more straightforward to just be at the place light is needed, and meter.

The monitors are great for 'confirmation' of the lighting, relative to the camera characteristics... but then so is 'display' LUT adjustment on set... but is it an absolute requirement... I don't think so.
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Agreed. Great points. :)
 
nothing said:
FYI, when shooting digital a meter should only be used when lighting, for checking ratios and such. Camera exposure should be set by looking at the camera's image using either a calibrated monitor or exposure tools such as histogram or waveform.
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You say this as if lighitng and camera exposure have no connection. :)
A histogram is often useless as it doesn't tell you what falls where. A waveform monitor is certainly much more useful. False colors can be nice. But nothing beats a small angle spotmeter in useability for local exposure judgment. Especially if you have one showing relevant info based on the camera recording (or just monitoring, if you so desire) transfer curve.
That said, I see no problem in just using the meter if you are confident in correctly placing tones on the characteristic curve based on meter readings. And you should be, with camera settings you've tested. If you are fast and accurate you can certainly live with people calling you a poser. :D
 
I always imagine that the difference between 2-in-1 meters, & single servers, had more to do with the design than the electronics. Dedicated spot meters tend to have larger lenses, so I suppose they're faster, & better able to read into the shadows, while a Spectras larger ball diffuser gives it an advantage over the smaller versions, but this may come down to usage.

Which brings my next point. Metering is an Art. Not only does it matter how one uses the meter, but just as importantly how one interprets the reading. Soft, specular, & back, light each require different interpretations. As do many other factors.

Most of us are spoiled these days, but just a decade ago much of still photography was done with chrome films that required precise exposure, & the best simulation was a Polaroid, which often failed.
 
I recently purchased a L358 which has some cine-functions but is much less expensive than a 758. I don't really use it for camera exposure, but it is very useful for scouting and lighting ratios. To have an idea of what you are walking into before a shoot is pretty useful, and you don't have to pack a cam to do it.

The L358 has a couple of features that make it better (for me) than the Cine-308; it has multiple memory options, it can take measurements at more than one ASA setting in case you are doing two different cams, and it will take a radio popper chip in case your are doing still flash photography.

Not essential, but very handy.

Grant
 
I have a brief case full of excellent and very well used meters ... but I will say that in the digital era.. I have no need for any of them now apart from memories and the skills and knowledge I learnt by using them! I will never forget the basics of lighting, exposure, cinematography.. because of the experiences with these devices.

Meantime..technology moves on...

The WFM absolutely rules my shoot and post production workflow.

Whatever...I do advise that people learn what light is measured by and use of a lightmeter is valuable part of this knowledge gain.
 
If I'm in LA working a conventional set I'll sometimes bring my Super-Hero belt with all the meters harnessed in beautully worn handcrafted leather holsters, but abroad it's rare I'll carry even a little 308 Sekonic.

Meters can be a time saver with complicated large sets, but like 'Shooter', I find much less use for them compared to the analytical tools encompassed within the camera, monitor, & eye.
 
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Ryan E. Walters said:
I disagree. If you have calibrated the meter and the camera together, the meter can reliably be used to set exposure.
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I'm still in the learning curve with that, and I plan to invest for one good meter in the entry-level range, as I'm by no mean a professional living out of it.
That being said, I'm curious about calibrating the meter and the camera together. Could you spread more light on that please?
 
I also have the Sekonic L758 Cine. But although it's a great meter, I can only use it for it's most basic spot and incident functions - it's just too damn complicated to operate any of the meter's other features!

You practically have to hold down all of the buttons, whilst hopping on one leg and turning the dials with your tongue to make it do anything fancy - so unless you have time to sit down with your manual, which doesn't often happen on set, I think most of its features will be wasted on most people, so you might do better with a simpler (and cheaper) spot & incident inclusive meter.

At any rate, ever since I discovered the primal, almost sexual, joys of false colour metering, I pretty much only pull the meter out for pre-lighting situations.
 
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I own the Sekonic 508, which is an older version of the 758. It doesn't have all the super-complicated features of the 758, but it works quite well, and it's on a completely different price bracket.

(I bought it because of a recommendation from starcentral; thanks again buddy, you saved me some nice $$$!)
 
The best lightmeter is a nikon D70 with an 18-55 or some other crap DLSR and expodisc lens cap.

RGB histo (ratios), colour temp meter, exposure meter, spot, wide, continuity device, framing device, records all your settings (meta data), can be used to note position of lights etc - the perfect DP tool.

About the same size as a big posh light meter and cheaper

S
 
avery said:
What is the best light meter to get and for the best price? Need one that will last.

Thanks
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I highly recommend the Sekonic LM-508 zoom master cine-meter which will save you some money over the 758 and give you 99% of the same functionality. (or so).

I have recommended it to several others and they are very happy with it.

Samuel H said:
I own the Sekonic 508, which is an older version of the 758. It doesn't have all the super-complicated features of the 758, but it works quite well, and it's on a completely different price bracket.

(I bought it because of a recommendation from starcentral; thanks again buddy, you saved me some nice $$$!)
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As others have suggested you should perform an initial calibration of your camera and lenses to your light meter using a grey card, accurate waveform monitor and even light source. After you have done this you should ignore the camera's own ISO rating and work with the one you have come up with. If you're lucky they will match but many people who curse use of meters is because they have not done this critical step and potentially using a meter improperly. Light meters are not for these kinds of people.

Keep in mind that everything from shutter speed or camera shutter on/off will influence the exposure so again it is important to test it in your studio or house, etc.. and keep a small journal of your camera settings and meter reads for future consultation.

One thing I have also enjoyed doing with my light meter is reading light from different fixtures in foot-candles and again keeping a small journal kept notes on different light fixtures I have used, rented, or even built so that in the future I can refer back to it and get an idea of what kind of light output I had. ie. my 24x36" softbox with a 500w tungsten light and one light baffle installed gives me 42fc at 1 meter which on one particular camera I use gives me f4. Now that I know 42fc gives me f4 on that camera and specific camera ISO setting I can work with that for different light setups, etc. Do however be careful not to overly trust the ratings by manufacturers which they list on their website - it is always best do rate it yourself. Hence the pocket journal I keep.

I have rated everything from Source 4's, ARRI's, Lowels, LED lights, to 575w HMI off bleached muslin, etc.. For me lighting is not standing behind the camera but "painting" with the light all while solving a whack load of problems. :)


nothing said:
FYI, when shooting digital a meter should only be used when lighting, for checking ratios and such. Camera exposure should be set by looking at the camera's image using either a calibrated monitor or exposure tools such as histogram or waveform.
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I don't necessarily agree with that, although regardless of if you actually use the meter to tell you what f-stop you are getting I definitely agree it is a very good tool for measuring ratios on your talent, backgrounds, foregrounds, etc.. Especially in interiors where you can have multiple light sources doing different things.

After performing the short procedure I mentioned above on all the different cameras and lenses I have used on various productions over the years, I'm so comfortable and confident about what my meter is telling me that really I could trust it at times without even having to look at a monitor to know I am at base level exposure.

One thing final thing that is worth mentioning is that a camera with waveform monitor sees reflected light while a light meter sees incident light (ie. the light that is falling onto it). You have to keep that in mind because using a meter to put f4 on something pure black is not going to increase its exposure the same as putting f4 on something pure white.
 
drapeama said:
Thanks! I'll check that out!

Also, what would you recommend as a "starter kit" for a hobbyist? I don't have 380$+ to invest on a light meter as I won't be using it professionally! Any good compromise?
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I'd recommend the Sekonic L-308DC (cine version) for a 'starter' meter. B&H, a reputable dealer, has the meter for about $239 USD. As other have noted, perhaps this is the only meter you will ever buy... However, when starting out to 'read light', a meter is very helpful, and much cheaper than a monitor with false color coding... and on top of that, highly portable... you can use it anywhere...

I use it to check out all kinds of lighting, and find what the lighting is in terms of footcandles (lux for metric system folk...), and then use the basic formula,

100 Footcandles @ 1/48 @ 2.8 @ 24 fps @ 100 ISO for calculating whether 'I have enough light' or not, and how much more do I need.

For an actual scene, I also use a spot meter to find lighting ratios of actual subjects or scene areas.

That's where the advice about using a DSLR to snap a shot. However, a meter is far quicker and doesn't require much 'analysis'... However using an incident meter to find 'ratios' is a bit more awkward than 'point and shoot'...

While using a meter may seem like using a buggy whip on an automobile... I think they are still very useful, and the L-308DC is 'cheap enough' that it's not over kill for the price.

Given that the L-308 has been out for a while, there are probably ebay deals to be had, however I never pay more than 1/2 the current 'street' price for ebay items. So, that would be about $100 for the L-308.
 
Just to add to any past or future argument about simply using a "camera" instead of a "light meter" I find it highly impractical for scouting a location or demanding that the talent or a stand in go "into your lighting" so you can work on lighting your scene and setting your exposure levels and lighting ratios. I hope people honestly realize how impractical that is.

Same with scouting a location. A meter tells you the ambient light levels at a certain time of day so you can figure out what extra lighting you will need to work with the ratios you would like. Dragging around a DSLR is one thing, but an EPIC, C500, F55 for the purpose as a "light meter" seems rather foolish.
 
I suggested 'dragging round' a nikon D70 and crappo kit lens - cheap, light small. (actually Ive got a D80) Really not much difference from some of the larger meters.

Seems perfect for scouting and pre lighting recces and the like

Yes you have to 'match' the ISO to your proper camera and an expodisc can make it an incident meter..

I dont follow compact cameras but again I bet there is a pocket size lumix that could do the job.

S
 
I would love to have a Sekonic L758 Cine, but just haven't had the money to spare for one. I still use my trusty Sekonic L-398 incident meter that I have had for a couple of decades and I just picked up a Pentax Spotmeter V off of eBay for $120 bucks (with shipping). I like using a meter. It is a reference that I have am comfortable with since my days of shooting film.
 
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