FS7: Lexar's XQD 128GB finally coming

A

alohype

Veteran
Guys, have you seen this?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1186721-REG/lexar_lxqd128crbna2933_pro_2933x_xqd_memory.html

So they're finally coming, I'm waiting for them since May. What's surprising that they're not even listed on Lexar's homepage.

Does anyone knows what this USB may refer to?

It also seems that speed (x2933) is higher then originally planned. Look at this placeholder on Lexar's website (it's there for months):
http://www.lexar.com/products/skus/128gb-professional-2666x-xqd-20-card
 
DLD said:
I assume it's the reader-to-the-offload hard drive connection, i.e., via USB 2.0.
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Not sure what that means, but that might be correlated with protocols that were different then the Sony ones (not read by Sony reader). Maybe it will be unified on those.
 
XQD cards are disgustingly overpriced... haha. So are BP-U batteries. Literally the thing I hate most about my FS7, can't even afford the necessaries. How is it that you can buy a 3tb hard drive for around $80, but a 128gb XQD is $440?

Just my opinion guys, not trying to start any arguments!
 
1027Films said:
XQD cards are disgustingly overpriced... haha. So are BP-U batteries. Literally the thing I hate most about my FS7, can't even afford the necessaries. How is it that you can buy a 3tb hard drive for around $80, but a 128gb XQD is $440?

Just my opinion guys, not trying to start any arguments!
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As said, economies of scale, and also... an $80 3tb hard drive doesn't perform the sort of sustained read/write speeds your video camera requires. And further - when we talk about either form of digital storage, we're talking about something that requires gobs of specialized equipment to manufacture. If you don't like the prices of furniture, you could make your own in your garage. You can't make a 3tb hard drive in your garage. Or XQD memory. They do need to make a profit on all that research and machinery.
 
The Lexar 64gb 1333x cards are very reasonable- $136 or so. I've found the 200mbs speed to be up to the task even with 4K, and uploading goes very quickly, never needed the faster cards.
 
I have been running one 128gb card and have had to off load during the day. Not ideal, but it takes 15min to dump a card over usb3, so that's pretty impressive.

I just don't want smaller than 128gb as I hate to have a lot of cards to dump at the end of a day.
I think it's far more likely for a human failure when backing up after a long day than a card failure during shooting.
 
I have 1 x 128 and 2 x 64Gb, which means I can still be shooting when material is copying, and often I don't need to transfer at all during the day.
 
Viddovation said:
As said, economies of scale, .... They do need to make a profit on all that research and machinery.
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There would be economies of scale if camera manufacturers like Sony didn't produce proprietary media every few years. There's no reason why there has to be all these different flavours of media it's only there so Sony et al can mark it up and gouge the customer not so much profit on their research.

I understand the XQD media is so expensive because Sony couldn't get the likes of Sandisk etc to make the media because they're more interested in making CFast and the latest flavour of SD media for a wider user base.

You can bet the next F cameras from Sony will have a whole new type of media and ignore the existence of CFast.
 
Nirv said:
There would be economies of scale if camera manufacturers like Sony didn't produce proprietary media every few years. There's no reason why there has to be all these different flavours of media it's only there so Sony et al can mark it up and gouge the customer not so much profit on their research.

I understand the XQD media is so expensive because Sony couldn't get the likes of Sandisk etc to make the media because they're more interested in making CFast and the latest flavour of SD media for a wider user base.

You can bet the next F cameras from Sony will have a whole new type of media and ignore the existence of CFast.
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Perhaps. However, we're in a phase of rapid invention and improvement when it comes to computing. Often, new advancements don't fit neatly onto old protocols. To a consumer USB 1, 1.1, 2.0, and 3.0 all fairly neatly and magically play nice together. To the developers, that's a whole lot of work to make everything play nice backwards and forwards. And it has limits. Sometimes it is necessary to start from scratch - particularly if you're making something high bandwidth. And you make a new interface or protocol, you get patents. That prevents other companies from using your hard work for free. The fact that we do have so many protocols and media standards that are shared is kind of amazing - these companies have to license from each other (pay fees) and build colations and agree to all work with the same standards. But it's not done by default.

I would bet Sony didn't make CFast and would have to pay fees to use it.

We live in a magical world with electricity, running water, bountiful food on every corner, the ability to be on the other side of the world in 24 hours time... and no one is happy or satisfied.
 
Nirv said:
There would be economies of scale if camera manufacturers like Sony didn't produce proprietary media every few years...
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That's correct. I just posted the similar line on the Red Raven thread. "Sell the razor cheap, so you can make money off the blades" isn't exactly a novel idea.
 
DLD said:
That's correct. I just posted the similar line on the Red Raven thread. "Sell the razor cheap, so you can make money off the blades" isn't exactly a novel idea.
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Dosent really work that anthology. I think you will run through a few more razor blades than REDMAGS or XQD cards in a year.
I still have my 4 REDMAGS from 2011, never bought more. I don't have any idea how many razor blades I've gone through. A 100 maybe?
 
DLD said:
That's correct. I just posted the similar line on the Red Raven thread. "Sell the razor cheap, so you can make money off the blades" isn't exactly a novel idea.
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The analogy doesn't work because the media isn't a consumable. I've got 1x128GB card and I've been offloading to my MBP when on site. I can see myself buying 1 extra card in the event I want to travel lighter and leave the MBP in the office.
 
How about this...

Why don't the Sony 128GB XQD cards I paid around $1400 for NOT have a write protect switch?
 
I think XQD might be future, along with SD cards, which will never die. CFast is probably a middle-of-road dead end.

First, XQD isn't yet another Sony-only format like Memory Stick. It's an open standard put forth by Sony, Nikon, and SanDisk, and picked up by the CompactFlash Association.

Second, XQD is the only memory format based on PCI Express. This is the bus that hard drives are moving towards, because it is both simpler and faster than SATA.

Third, the data rate of 10-bit 4K raw at 24 frames per second is 2 gigabits per second. You want to do slow motion? 60 frames per second would be 5 gigabits per second. 120 frames per second, 10 gigabits per second. And this is only for 10 bit, which with logarithmic analog-to-digital conversion is enough even for a camera with 19 stops of dynamic range. 12 bits sounds higher, but 12-bit linear is worse than 10-bit log. Plus, the nice thing about 10-bit 4K is that it's almost exactly 1 TB per hour. So it's easier to see how much recording time you'll get just by looking at the label on the card.

So what does all that mean? Well, CFast, which is based on the old SATA standard, can only ever reach 6 Gbps. So it will only ever do about 60 fps in 4K RAW. There is no upgrade path for SATA to one day do more. The upgrade path is to move to PCI Express. While 60 fps 4K RAW would be good enough for a lot of people, I also think that this will remain a niche format. SDXC card are good enough for consumers. And I don't see two niche formats (CFast and XQD) coexisting forever. One will languish. One will survive.

Of course, SDXC's theoretical max is enough for HD at up to 120 frames per second. Had we all been practical about what's visible to the human eye at normal viewing distances, we would all happily be using SDXC cards. But nooooohhh....
 
Thanks for that very informative post. I didn't know that about CF cards. Reason alone why RED won't go in that direction.
I also agree that it's lunacy that you can't write protect the XQD cards.
I'm on a production now where we use F55s and FS7s and hand over the cards to a production assistant to take to the editor assistant for transfer. I always like to lock the cards I have used so they can't be accidentally mixed up with the unused cards. No such luck with the XQD
 
One more vote on the write protection switch - WTF?
I was using drag and drop for offloading cards on my Mac as I have done for years and something went wrong last month and corrupted the original card - first problem ever with a card in years. OK I have learned my lesson -no more drag & drop - but if the card had been write protected it would have been no problem.
 
Lenilenapi said:
One more vote on the write protection switch - WTF?
I was using drag and drop for offloading cards on my Mac as I have done for years and something went wrong last month and corrupted the original card - first problem ever with a card in years. OK I have learned my lesson -no more drag & drop - but if the card had been write protected it would have been no problem.
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Just another comment about drag & drop, my friend used this method the other day to copy over rushes we'd shot. I didn't have my laptop with me as I usually use Offload. Anyhow, for whatever reason his MacBook Pro decided to eject the destination drive mid transfer and for whatever reason the XDROOT folder on the XQD card disappeared! After many attempts to re-mount the XQD card on different computers, all showing nothing, I put the card back into the camera, no clips, the camera thought it was an empty card!
 
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