Less aliasing - More noise

Chris Santucci

Chris Santucci

Veteran
That's what I've just concluded after 30 minutes of testing.

I think I'll take my chances with aliasing. It's going back. Maybe...
 
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5D MKIII, yeah (sorry). This concerns me (considerable, ugly noise in toe and middle area of exposure - where it normally would be anyway, but at 640 ISO?!?!):

www.santucci-cinematographer.com/MISC/352C0028.MOV

This was shot at 640 ISO, "ALL I" mode, no in-camera enhancements enabled, no noise reduction, audio disabled, neutral with contrast and sharpness turned all the way down.

That noise is at least as bad as the MKII, maybe even worse. No, I did not do a side by side comparison, but I've been shooting with the MKII for over 2 years now and this is nasty.
 
Chris,
All-I mode has already been show to be problematic (check EOSHD). It is VBR and it sucks. There may even be a bug in the encoder.
Try IPB mode, much better apparently.


Cheers,
Clayton
 
Have you tried looking at footage on say your LCD TV or something else other than a computer monitor? The footage I'm getting looks fantastic all the way up to 12,500. And the footage between 100-3200 is noiseless. I add a touch of post sharpen and I'm seeing magic.

Shoot some footy, and hook it up to your HDMI Tv set and get back to us.
 
I don't need it to look good so much from a camera feed. I need it to look good after it gets transcoded and post produced. And all my monitors are 10 bit units.

There's very noticeable noise below about 30 or 35 IRE at 640 ISO with the NR in the middle, with IPB, and it would be really offensive and noticeable if it were large fields of the less exposed areas. No matter what I do, I see that noise and even some banding with gradations in those lower ranges.

If shooting something high key or contrasty - no problem. You crush the blacks and that tonal range is gone.

I'm not so sure this camera makes a better image than the MKII or that it's worth the extra dough. The features they added to the camera like the headphone jack, audio monitoring, expanded AF menus, low light capability, etc., - I couldn't care less about. I just want clean footage.
 
I wonder myself if the D4 HDMI 4:2:2 output is not the best buck of the bunch till C-DSLR won't be out...
 
I have to stick with the 5D for multiple reasons but I'm going back to the MKII. I am truly not impressed with the MKIII. It's softer, noisier, and more complicated to use. No thanks.
 
Chris Santucci said:
I have to stick with the 5D for multiple reasons but I'm going back to the MKII. I am truly not impressed with the MKIII. It's softer, noisier, and more complicated to use. No thanks.
Click to expand...

So are you seeing the noise just as bad with IPB?
Have you tried turning everything off like NR and that CA thing, HTP etc?
And is it just 640 or other ISOs too?

We've been having a long discussion/battle about softness in the news "MKIII specs" thread. We suspect it has up to 900 lines res but the anti-aliasing makes it appear soft in camera. The detail can be extracted if you shoot with 0 sharpness and apply sharpening in post. Early days yet, lots of testing to come.
 
squig said:
So are you seeing the noise just as bad with IPB?
Have you tried turning everything off like NR and that CA thing, HTP etc?
And is it just 640 or other ISOs too?

We've been having a long discussion/battle about softness in the news "MKIII specs" thread. We suspect it has up to 900 lines res but the anti-aliasing makes it appear soft in camera. The detail can be extracted if you shoot with 0 sharpness and apply sharpening in post. Early days yet, lots of testing to come.
Click to expand...

I also recommend if you have them, to review footage though the HDMI on any TV you might own. I have 7 TV's in my house ranging from 200in projection to 37in LED (my 73in calibrated DLP is my go to and most used set and everything looks spectacular). The footage looks good on all of them. Try it and report back with findings.
 
squig said:
So are you seeing the noise just as bad with IPB?
Have you tried turning everything off like NR and that CA thing, HTP etc?
And is it just 640 or other ISOs too?
Click to expand...


I turned everything off as I had always done in my MKII over the past 2 years and the noise in that specific tonal range was unbearable at any ISO setting, yes. And yes, I'm only using IPB. Of course I'm only really looking at that one range and it seems the sensor hates yellow/red, so there IS that.


squig said:
We've been having a long discussion/battle about softness in the news "MKIII specs" thread. We suspect it has up to 900 lines res but the anti-aliasing makes it appear soft in camera. The detail can be extracted if you shoot with 0 sharpness and apply sharpening in post. Early days yet, lots of testing to come.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I'm going to do more and more testing I suppose and then there are some picture style settings that Samuel H is working on too. I'll go back to sharpening all the way down and see what's what, thanks.
 
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dustylense said:
I also recommend if you have them, to review footage though the HDMI on any TV you might own. I have 7 TV's in my house ranging from 200in projection to 37in LED (my 73in calibrated DLP is my go to and most used set and everything looks spectacular). The footage looks good on all of them. Try it and report back with findings.
Click to expand...


Have you looked at values below 35 IRE? Like large amounts of real estate in that range? Like an entire frame filled with values only between around 20 and 35 IRE?
 
Chris Santucci said:
Have you looked at values below 35 IRE? Like large amounts of real estate in that range? Like an entire frame filled with values only between around 20 and 35 IRE?
Click to expand...
Yes, and it looks fine. In both IBP and I. Again, I think it's computer hardware or the fact that the codec is now Rec709 and not Rec609. I'm just going by visuals and will let the science guys determine what is the true aspect of it all.
 
Chris have you tried cinestyle? I've long had suspicions that it was developed for an early beta MKIII.

Are you seeing the noise in the mov files straight out of the camera or just after transcoding?

How are you transcoding?

What NLE are you using?

Sorry for the 20 questions but I'm trying share the love.

If you put a file up on a server that you're having issues with a few of us can have a look into it.
 
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