GH4 Lenses made for GH4?

C

CustomerGH4

Well-known member
Hello,
I just realized that many native lenses that people have suggested for me are often from the year 2011 (Leica 25mm, Zuiko 45mm etc), so therefore they are intended to shoot in HD with the 2x crop factor (Gh3 and other MFT cameras) and not with the 2.5 and 2.6 4K and UHD crop factors that the GH4 has.

So yeah, my question is that what are the lenses made specifically with the GH4 in mind? I presume SLR 10mm is one of them maybe?
 
A lot of lenses were made for 4K+ photography, so they are capable of handling 4K video.
 
Uh, other than a slight crop what is the issue? Or do you absolutely need that specific FoV from a certain lens?
 
yslee said:
Uh, other than a slight crop what is the issue? Or do you absolutely need that specific FoV from a certain lens?
Click to expand...

I need those focal lengths a lot.
For example with the 12mm I was hoping to get the 24mm (2x crop factor) but turns out its 24mm in HD, with the UHD (2,6) and 4K (2,5) crop factor they are 30mm something which just isn´t the same.

I have many reasons to get wide shots, but the main reason is that the camera shoots 4K, but the 4K landscapes are narrower than HD shots:Drogar-Angry(DBG): Whats the point of a huge resolution if I only get one narrow part of a lake/mountain/building etc into the shot?
When I think of 4K, I also want big 4K worthy shots.
 
Right, so you want wide shots. How about a 7-14? 7mm for video work is really wide even with a 2x crop, so it'll come in handy for the extra crop in 4K.
 
There's nothing made specifically for the GH4 format crops, but considering that these lenses are mainly designed to be 16 Mpx still photo lenses, there is definitely no issue in terms of sharpness.

It's up to you figure out what focal lengths you need for the video image you want to produce, as there are so many different factors in play, including SpeedBoosters with older SLR lenses.

Also, I've seen many different crop factors listed for the GH4, but from my own calculations relating the GH4 sensor pixel dimensions (4608 x 3456) vs UHD (3840 x 2160) and DCI (4096 x 2160) formats, I'm getting a crop factor of 2.25x for the 4K DCI format and 2.4x for the 4K UHD format, so I don't think this is as big a deal as people are making it out to be. For example a 12mm lens = 27mm 4K DCI format or 29mm 4K UHD format.

If you want something more on the ultra-wide side of things, then you looking at the Panasonic 7-14mm f/4.0 zoom = 16mm to 32mm 4K DCI format. There are a few new wide primes coming on the market, and Olympus has a 7-14mm f/2.8 zoom in the works. ( I will probably buy this Olympus lens once it's out )
 
CustomerGH4 said:
I need those focal lengths a lot.
For example with the 12mm I was hoping to get the 24mm (2x crop factor) but turns out its 24mm in HD, with the UHD (2,6) and 4K (2,5) crop factor they are 30mm something which just isn´t the same.

I have many reasons to get wide shots, but the main reason is that the camera shoots 4K, but the 4K landscapes are narrower than HD shots:Drogar-Angry(DBG): Whats the point of a huge resolution if I only get one narrow part of a lake/mountain/building etc into the shot?
When I think of 4K, I also want big 4K worthy shots.
Click to expand...

Why get "hung up" on the "numbers game". Both still photography and motion picture are VISUAL mediums, not "math games". To me it's real simple, past the increased definition I don't care about HD, UHD, or full 4K, or whatever. If I need wide I grab a wide lens and SEE visually how I can make it fit what I need. In the years I spent in the film ages doing some documentary work, some photojournalism, I learned to depend on the full frame 28mm as a "workhorse" wide angle lens.

Give or take a silly millimeter (or two), I'm not going to care. I can just put the lens on the camera and get what I need.

Now, for the present, there are two wider options in "native" m4/3 glass, the Lumix 7-14 and the Olympus m.Zuiko 9-18. I chose the latter for price and for the ease of putting filters on the lens (ND in particular). Yes, I know it's not f2.8 or f2, however I'll put that lens on the camera and find a way to make it work for the situation I'm in.

But I sure as heck wasn't drawn to visuals and imaging by the mathematical aspect of it.
 
NorBro said:
A lot of lenses were made for 4K+ photography, so they are capable of handling 4K video.
Click to expand...

Hmm, that´s a good point.
Tried to find if there are some standards that the lenses should measure up to and found a comparison with other 4K cameras, don´t know how true it is but in the comparison they have marked that the lens resolution required is higher in GH4 than in Sony A7, Canon 1DC.http://wolfcrow.com/blog/a-fun-comp...asonic-gh4-and-the-canon-1dc-4k-dslr-cameras/
 
Bruce Foreman said:
In the years I spent in the film ages doing some documentary work, some photojournalism, I learned to depend on the full frame 28mm as a "workhorse" wide angle lens.
Click to expand...

That is the problem here. Getting that 28mm is not easy if one wants to work with all the formats. Recording HD with a 14mm lens would be 28mm, but in UHD and 4K it would be different.
And every mm makes a difference. 30, 32, 35mm are not the same as 24, 26, 28mm.
 
CustomerGH4 said:
in the comparison they have marked that the lens resolution required is higher in GH4 than in Sony A7, Canon 1DC
Click to expand...

Because the GH4 uses a smaller sensor your lenses have to be sharper than the larger formats, which pretty much all Micro 4/3 lenses are. ( there's no problem getting a highly detailed shot from a GH4 )

One thing I thought was kind of weird about that camera test is that he did not mention that you can use the Shogun with the GH4 too. The author also glosses over the fact that the GH4 can record 4K DCI format at 10-bit 4:2:2 while neither the Canon or the Sony can. In bright ( not too contrasty ) lighting conditions the GH4 should produce one of the best images of these three cameras. Also the whole noise issue with the GH4 camera largely depends on the camera settings when shooting in bright light conditions.
 
CustomerGH4 said:
That is the problem here. Getting that 28mm is not easy if one wants to work with all the formats. Recording HD with a 14mm lens would be 28mm, but in UHD and 4K it would be different.
And every mm makes a difference. 30, 32, 35mm are not the same as 24, 26, 28mm.
Click to expand...

It's going to be a problem for YOU because YOU choose to let it be one. While you're fretting about the numbers, I'll simply put the lens on the camera and get the shot. I may have to adjust my shooting position a "tad" to refine it, but I'll get it done and move on to the next.

On Canon APS-C I worked with 18mm on the "kit" lens and 17mm on the 17-40 f4L, I got essentially the same "practical" FOV with either, close enough to the equivalent 28mm to not make a "whit" of difference. I had the EF 28mm f1.8 and tried the Sigma 30mm f1.4 on the same camera. Yeah, 2mm difference, but in the VF, on the LCD, and in the video clip any difference was not significant. I had essentially the same practical "normal" perspective.

FACT: Right now no one is making lenses specifically for specific FOV on the GH4 4K "crop factor", and I don't think they are going to real soon. So we have to work with lenses "on the shelf" right now.

I'll do the best I can with them and just flat not "fret" about it. Not gonna let it be a problem for me...
 
I don't fret the numbers so much as struggle to get a fast enough wide for stabilizer work in UHD 4K. To me anything over 35mm FF equivalent is tripod territory. My 17mm f/1.8 is equivalent to a 42mm on a FF and in reality extremely difficult to get perfectly stable images with. It's like a standard lens on a FF. Bread and butter type of lens for UHD 4K, but never very useful for that alternative specialty shot.

The new 10mm T2.1 or the rumored 12mm f/1.2 would be the sweet spot for my liking. We'll just have to see when and if these come out and at what cost. In the mean time the only lenses out there are the Oly 12mm f/2 and the SLR Magic 12mm T/1.6 that fit my requirements for run and gun stabilizer work.

To sort this out it takes some time and experience with the numbers to know what it is that works for you and your style. The issue with the difference between 4K and HD is simply a few steps closer for HD with the same lens. Now that I know where I'm at, I've found the break point to be about 14mm. To me that was a numbers game that is worth knowing for my shooting style.

Just my $0.02 on the subject.

Cheers,
Pete
 
Bruce Foreman said:
It's going to be a problem for YOU because YOU choose to let it be one. While you're fretting about the numbers, I'll simply put the lens on the camera and get the shot. I may have to adjust my shooting position a "tad" to refine it, but I'll get it done and move on to the next.
Click to expand...

Well its good if adjusting the position does not bother you, but it may bother others who don´t use zooms.
For example lets say that there is a kid on the street dancing on one spot a funny dance, a person sets up the tripod fast and makes a composition, the kid is dancing in the middle of the shot, but on both sides of the shot there is something the cameraman does not want into the shot (some ugly street lamps, trash bins, onlookers etc). The person shoots it in UHD with 2,6x crop factor and then might think that actually this shot would be better in HD slow mo. As he/she turns on the HD mode, the crop factor turns into 2x, and the stuff he/she cropped out from the shot before might and most likely appear back into the shot. And boom the composition is not the same any more. Of course one might move the tripod as you said a "tad" and get the same shot, but by then the kid may have already stopped dancing.


c3hammer said:
I don't fret the numbers so much as struggle to get a fast enough wide for stabilizer work in UHD 4K. To me anything over 35mm FF equivalent is tripod territory. My 17mm f/1.8 is equivalent to a 42mm on a FF and in reality extremely difficult to get perfectly stable images with.

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...

Yes ! Exactly, most "wide" lenses for mft end up being in the "normal" focal length and are pretty much useless without a tripod or steadycam. (Unless they have OIS.)

yslee said:
There's that 15/1.7 as well.
Click to expand...

That would be shaky as well handheld. 37,5mm and 39mm in 4K and UHD mode.
 
Speedboster and Canon IS lenses? That´s how a lot of BMPCC users roll, with its almost 3x crop... Just in HD of course;)
 
Nothing wrong with it, looks like a great lens and that built in hood is a plus also.
Currently I don´t have no zooms, but seems that I still have to get one to counter the crop factors. With the zoom there is no need to change the position of the camera, one can just zoom in and out in most cases.
 
I think you're psyching yourself out.

The difference in a 28mm focal length equivalent in 1080 crop (2x) and 4K crop (2.3x) is 14mm vs. ~12mm. There are multiple primes and zooms made to cover both. I've rarely found OIS to be necessary in wide angle lenses, but if you do, the Lumix 12-35 has you covered. If you have a prime... like Paula Abdul says, "Two steps forward, two steps back"
 
mcbob said:
I think you're psyching yourself out.

The difference in a 28mm focal length equivalent in 1080 crop (2x) and 4K crop (2.3x) is 14mm vs. ~12mm.
Click to expand...

2.3 is with full frame. With native lenses the crop is 2.6 instead of 2.3.
But yeah seems like zooms with ois are a must have for gh4.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top