LED vs fluorescent

HeXman

HeXman

Active member
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to figure out the best way to light a studio green screen without breaking the bank. I currently have this lowel kit...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/285864-REG/Lowel_DPR_96Z_DP_Core_96_Kit.html

...but I just found out that tungsten is not the best for lighting a green screen because of the color temperature, so I'm trying to figure out what would be best, LED or Fluoresent...

I also read on this blog [ http://led-world.blogspot.com/2011/02/comparison-led-vs-fluorescent-vs.html ] that apparently LED's are better but more expensive. Is there is anyone who has experience working with both?

I'm willing to spend $1,500 max for:

- (2) 1,000 watts (for the green screen)
- (1) 1,000 watts key
- (1) 500 watts fill

What will you guys recommend me to buy and where?

So far, this is what caught my attention...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pro-1000-LED-Di...677?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4cf9497a25
http://www.eoslightingllc.com/cm/videographers/dayflo-fx/dayflo-fx-7000/ (I know the company has the worst costumer service, but I can buy these lights directly from a person)

Thanks in advance

Hector

Note: I know that Kino Flo, Lite panels and Arri are the best but they are expensive as hell, and since I have seen many LED and fluorescent lights on ebay that are waaaaay cheaper.. I been wondering how much of a difference are these brands in comparison to let's say brands like Coolights, Ikan, Flolight, Dayflo etc
 
Kino Flo (maybe others, as well) sells green fluorescent tubes specifically for green screen work -- it makes for purer colors on the screen and therefore it is easier to pull a good key. You can't do that with LEDs, so consider it a point in favor of fluorescents. (You can use them in anybody's fixtures, doesn't have to be genuine Kino Flos.)

- Greg
 
Greg Smith said:
Kino Flo (maybe others, as well) sells green fluorescent tubes specifically for green screen work.)

- Greg
Click to expand...

I know Kinos are awesome but the price is extremely high for me at the moment... For the project I'm working on, all I need is some descent fluorescent lights that can help me to do the job for at least two years. The lights will not be moving much as I'll be shooting at a studio most of the time.

I found these lights used for half the price from some guy on craigslist, so I been seriously thinking about these lights.... http://www.eoslightingllc.com/cm/videographers/dayflo-fx/dayflo-fx-7000/ They look like they'll do the job for at least 2 years...

What do you guys think?
 
HeXman said:
I know Kinos are awesome but the price is extremely high for me at the moment... For the project I'm working on, all I need is some descent fluorescent lights that can help me to do the job for at least two years. The lights will not be moving much as I'll be shooting at a studio most of the time.

I found these lights used for half the price from some guy on craigslist, so I been seriously thinking about these lights.... http://www.eoslightingllc.com/cm/videographers/dayflo-fx/dayflo-fx-7000/ They look like they'll do the job for at least 2 years...

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

My point was that the green tubes will go in any fluorescent fixture from any manufacturer that uses the 21" 55 watt biax tubes. I was kind of thinking of the Cool Lights fixtures, which are not dirt cheap, but probably half the price of Kino Flos. However, the ones you referenced use spiral CFL-type bulbs, so it's not an option with those as far as I know.

- Greg
 
Greg Smith said:
My point was that the green tubes will go in any fluorescent fixture from any manufacturer that uses the 21" 55 watt biax tubes. I was kind of thinking of the Cool Lights fixtures, which are not dirt cheap, but probably half the price of Kino Flos. However, the ones you referenced use spiral CFL-type bulbs, so it's not an option with those as far as I know.

- Greg
Click to expand...

Very good point Greg! excellent advice!! thanks! I guess I'll have to look for fixtures that uses the 21" 55 watt biax tubes....

...anyone knows of any manufactures that can do the job besides Cool lights?
 
My answer to your problem: education.

There were a thousand and one pro production shot with tungsten lighting and yet you are trying to reinvent the wheel and at that on a budget??? Why?
 
HeXman said:
Very good point Greg! excellent advice!! thanks! I guess I'll have to look for fixtures that uses the 21" 55 watt biax tubes....

...anyone knows of any manufactures that can do the job besides Cool lights?
Click to expand...

A friend of mine owns this kit and it does a nice job. Great kit for the price. Your $1,500 would buy six of these light bank fixtures, lamps (bulbs), and stands.

That said, Patryk is correct; you can light a green screen with tungsten lights. Its been done a million times over with great results.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
My answer to your problem: education.

There were a thousand and one pro production shot with tungsten lighting and yet you are trying to reinvent the wheel and at that on a budget??? Why?
Click to expand...

The reason why I'm asking this is because I have done several green screen work with tungsten and it has never been easy to key out the green easily, so I'm looking for a solution or a better alternative. Therefore, I'm trying to educate myself by reading blogs and asking people (who has experience working with both tungsten and fluorescent) what they recommend me to do.

I obviously know you can do a descent green screen with tungsten if performed properly so I'm not trying to "reinvent the wheel".... since I find out about the advantages of working with fluorescent and LED over tungsten, now I'm looking for different point of view about fluorescent or LED lights... that's all..
 
Terry_Lasater said:
A friend of mine owns this kit and it does a nice job. Great kit for the price. Your $1,500 would buy six of these light bank fixtures, lamps (bulbs), and stands.

That said, Patryk is correct; you can light a green screen with tungsten lights. Its been done a million times over with great results.
Click to expand...

Terry,

Thanks for the recommendation, that's the kind of recommendations I'm looking for...

I think that kit will be great to light the green screen, then I could buy another kit like that to use it as key light and fill light.. not bad...I still like Greg's recommendation about the green fluorescent tubes specifically for green screen work, but if that means that I need to spend 2,000 extra then I think its not the best option for my budget..
 
Jeez guys... it's not rocket science. If you're shooting tungsten-balanced, light your screen with tungsten. If you're shooting daylight, flo's are killer.

Hitting a greenscreen while shooting with tungsten settings will pump way too much blue into the screen. You want to hit the screen with (whatever your camera thinks of as) white light. I know a lot of people have messed with green gels to add some oomph and that may not be a bad idea... but the "green" of RGB is what you're after.

Tube-based flos really work well because of their shape and inherent softness, so they get my vote. Tungsten seems to need too much scrimming and messing to get a broad, soft rectangle (and I find softboxes too small). Overall, you'll have far far FAR better results by focusing on even lighting, good saturation, not being overly bright, and taking a freakin' garment steamer to your screen.

You really don't need quad-bank biax flos for this, I find they're way too bright and push you far past the sweet spot of the green (unless you're shooting at f8 or something). There are several manufacturers selling 2-bank lights for around $200... check on eBay. I have several and they're workhorses (avoid the gooseneck ones though).

I'm wrapping an HMC150 shoot with something like 70 greenscreen shots done on a 20' wide screen; ya know what's a killer way to light the screen? About 4 of those big 85 watt flo tubes. Hang 'em from china ball holders, stick some white cards behind 'em, or rig something up with super clamps. Toss in a couple twin biax flo's. Soften everything up with some sheets of 1/4 diffusion (or be cheap and use that tissue that comes between 'em). Awesome.

Untitled.jpg
 
Postmaster said:
I have the same kit an can vouch for it. Not exactly Kinos, but I use and abuse them since 2 years. Great value.

Frank
Click to expand...

Not tryngo to steal the thread, but, Frank, since you've got them, what about their flickering? Does it hold with fast shutters? I can't info on their frequency, does the balast run on 60 hz, or higher?
Thanks in advance
 
I guess I´m not much help here, cause I shoot everything with a 48 or 50 shutter.

I never tried faster shutter speeds on them and I have no idea what frequency they run on.
I guess something (out on a limb) in the 200Hz neighborhood, which is typical for that sort of lights.

I also never got any flicker that way - but as I said thats @ 48-50 shutter in PAL land.

Sorry, Frank
 
I use 2 of the 4' 4 bank Kino flo lights with the green tubes to light the EEFX green screen cloth.

attachment.php


Subjects were lit with Cool lights and other LEDs balanced to tungsten.

What you want is a nice tight trace of your waveform of the green:

attachment.php


This will let you make dirt simple keys.
 
Postmaster said:
I guess I´m not much help here, cause I shoot everything with a 48 or 50 shutter.

I never tried faster shutter speeds on them and I have no idea what frequency they run on.
I guess something (out on a limb) in the 200Hz neighborhood, which is typical for that sort of lights.

I also never got any flicker that way - but as I said thats @ 48-50 shutter in PAL land.

Sorry, Frank
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot, Frank. I also stick to an 180ish shutter, but I also rent out most of my light package, so it's nice to have lights able to shoot at fast shutter, businesswise.
 
The lights look decent, then again, it might be one of those cases, you get what you pay for (China). If there is a tread about feedback on those units, it would be great to check out. I got to try the cinemills cinesoft recently, and that caught my attention. I'm like you, price. But from what I've heard, LED is def. the way to go for future lighting. For the longevity, it might be worth the price to pay for. They told me they are now using nothing but LED lights to shoot a major film. That's going to be a major learning curve for a new trend. So that made my decision making a little more interested in the unit. But here I am searching for feedback and treads.
 
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