LATE NOVEMBER UPDATE - VIA HDforindies

Jarred Land

Jarred Land

President/Founder
Staff member
Mike has a great interview with Ted from Red over at Hdforindies..

http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/11/hd4nds-big-red-update-exclusive.html

its a looooong one.. here are Mike's wrap up points:


WRAP UP/BULLET POINTS

Price - still holding, but no promises - reservation holders get first dibs on new accessories

Ship date - no new info

Optical port - the bus topology is as yet undetermined, but presently they think it'll be a field swappable module - replace the Flash memory recording unit with the high speed port unit

-footage - looking good so far, have some new stills up on red.com, full size, uncompressed test frames up on cinematography.net

-Redcode & Redcine - see the workflow article

-still lens mounts - no hard data, but there will be a solution, likely an adaptor for manual control lenses (no pinout support for newer electronically controlled lenses). No specifics on brands/types supported as yet, but it seems like older, manual (non-electronically controlled) Canons will be a safe bet, that's what he talked about most

-REDRAIL/REDCAGE evolving, getting lighter and more modular/flexibly configurable, ENG/field shooting config shown in LA

-plan is to get prototypes into hands of real shooters to evaluate and shoot with the camera in the January timeframe

-for future purchasers - will come a time they'll take pre-orders, TBD

-unclear how long it'll take'em to fullfill reservation holders' orders

-Redcode - showed it in LA, didn't mean to be sneaky, just wanted to give a preview of what it looked like so far while under development

-Red will definitely will be attending NAB, but don't know what their next public event will be between now and then

-Redflash - sounds like there will be a card reader for it

-Ted's very optimistic about how Red One will compare with the other d-cinema cameras out there

-no firm estimte at this time as to shipping date, nor how long from that date until reservation pre-orders are filled and new orders could be filled

-new videos & CAD renders (stills are up from the latest new footage) are coming to the website

-they are still open to new folks expressing interest for testing (but I would say you should probably have a good reason to stand out from the crowd, since there is a crowd expressing interest - mike)

-mini-connectors to standard buses - it'll be XLR and HD-SDI, but with mini-connectors to them - pigtails/adaptors will be required to interface with industry standard cabling
 
Thanks for the heads up Jarred. Mike rocks!

Update: I read it, it is loooooooooooooong, but it is very thorough. Many questions answered with fresh info from Ted. Good stuff...
 
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yeah, it is kind of super duper turbo long. It took FOREVER to transcribe all those notes. After having done that, I thought about what it would take to edit his quotes...and bailed - thus the summary that Jarred has reproduced above. There's also a lot of analysis of What It All Means at the end of the article as well.

Just to keep everyone going, there will also be a looooong (but not as looooooooooong) article up, probably tomorrow, on workflow, with new info from Graeme and Stuart.

Shooters - lots of details on shooting modes, RGB vs RAW, aperture at speed, etc.

Post folk - lots on Redcode and Redcine and workflow and speed/performance thereof.

Tune In, should be a good one.

(Pardon the pimpage)

-mike
 
Detailed and so comprehensive. brilliant stuff......all of it, thanks Mike:beer:

Red Flash what a way to go.....hope it is not in the p2 price range though!

Michael
 
mike the beginner - nah, it won't be - they've said in the past the goal is for the 32GB to start around $1000. That'd be an 18 minute load of 4K 24p.
 
will the 160GB RED DRIVE be around $1,000 correct?..
Click to expand...

I think the under $1,000 was for a smaller red drive. The 160gb is the largest mentioned so far, perhaps someone will correct me?

I love the way red is trying their best to make this camera as modular as possible. The idea that the red flash housing can be removed and refitted sounds great if it can be replaced with say "red hollographic" housing if it ever came about in say two years or so?


Michael
 
mike the beginner - the company line at the shows was "hard drive storage starting under $1000" and the capacity to be between 40 and 160GB capacity. My read - WORST case scenario, $1000 for 40GB, which is still something like 23 minutes of 4K @ 24p.
 
40gb wont be the Red Drive.. thats more like the Red Flash. the Red Drive will most likely be above 100gb and under $1000.
 
Any word on how much an additional REDFLASH "magazine" will cost? I know it's unreasonable to expect a price right now, I'm just being vague. $50 or $2,000?
 
Jarred Land said:
40gb wont be the Red Drive.. thats more like the Red Flash. the Red Drive will most likely be above 100gb and under $1000.
Click to expand...
I'm hoping it comes in at much less than $1000. It's a pre-made laptop harddrive stuffed into a housing... I can't fathom development costs being very high for something that simple.
 
Just to give some perspective here- consider that Sony is selling the HVR-DR60 HDV which is, I believe, just a pre-made, single 60 GB laptop hard drive stuffed into a housing intended to mount on a camera, and it costs $1600. Yes, there are cheaper versions, the 80 GB Citidisk CDHDV-80 is around $900. Consider also the market for HDV recorders is probably 100x or 1000x as large as any REDRAID device.
 
I'm very desapointed about this news....

Q: I think I'm behind the curve on this: what's the deal on putting still lenses on the Red camera? Mounts etc.? I see lots of forum talk about this as a fair accompli, but no hard data from Red on it.

A: Well, that's about all we know too - there will be an adaptor to go from 35 still to 35 PL mount lenses.

Q: I don't see the big bolt circle on the front anymore...

A: There's a standard PL mount locking ring...yes, designed for 35mm PL mount lenses, the bolt circle in front has changed, it is most likely an adaptor for use with 35mm still lenses. We are in the midst of the optical front end design right now, so we're at the figuring out stage on that front.

Q: So there'll be some kind of a still lens mount adaptor, but what form factors?

A: There's the Nikon, Canon, and others, they have their own pin-out configuration which at this point in time, although we see a future pathway for electronic PL, those 35 still lenses won't have any way to talk to the camera yet. So the older Canon lenses are what you're going to want to use - manual aperture and focus because the newer ones are designed for electronic operation.


Q: But with an adaptor, you're not doing the whole front plate removal...

A: I don't know the answer to that, it is changing day to day
Click to expand...

I just bought for more 6000usd nikon primes so I'm sad about this news...
I read about a nikon mount not an adaptor, that changes a lot!!!
 
I think the point he is making is that adapters are available already to change a PL to other mounts. From what we've seen it was originally the intention to change the mount on the camera body not to just stick an adapter on as a means of attaching such lenses. Whether this makes it any less usable I haven't got a clue. But what I would say Samsara is that the camera will be able to use your 6000usd worth of nokia on it and if you have to use an adapter then it will likely be quicker and easier to mount your lenses than changing the entire mount anyway. If you had to swap between Nikon's and PL mounts on set it would take a long time compared to using an adapter.

Don't be put off by this. I would imagine by adapter it will be a bespoke adapter built especially for the camera so you get the right focal lengths etc, it won't just be a strapon adapter for the sake of it. I wouldn't think of it as one of those extra blocks to go between your lens and the camera.
 
Yes. Teds answer initially states a Nikon to PL adapter, which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, that would require optics in the adapter which has to be a compromise. Then it finishes up:

Q: But with an adaptor, you're not doing the whole front plate removal...

A: I don't know the answer to that, it is changing day to day

Which implies it may not be a stills to PL adapter, otherwise the answer would have been at least a qualified "that's right".

Confused? you will be.

Martin
 
Thanks Homersapien to express what my 3rd language can't explain!
In fact, I was scared about that I read somewhere...
...whith an adapter over the pl mount the focus become harder, like doing the focus with the back focus...
I'm probably wrong!

Anyway, Congratulation to all the team! The results are wonderful and they are getting better. I-m waiting for a camera like this for 15years! Super 35sensor, reasonable price, upgradeable…is revolutionary in more than one thing!
I didn’t-t understand why nobody else bold this jewelry before, but I think that everything come in time, big manufacturer are interested in selling cameras step by step, not too fast, and very expensive so Jim decide to make the dream of many DP: right now, the future in our hands!



Thanks
 
Lens Mounting

Lens Mounting

IMHO there are some givens in this equation and some questions, let's start with the givens and see if Rob or anyone on the Red Team cares to disabuse me of my notions:
1) A simple and reliable PL mounting solution is priority one.
2) Due to the high cost (and depending on where you are the availablity) of PL mount lenses there is a strong desire to be able to use lenses designed for still cameras that have the optical quality required to resolve enough line pairs per mm to take full advantage of the sensor at a much lower cost.
3) Due to the popularity, quality and availability of Canon and Nikon (F-mount) lenses they are the ones Red is likely to support first.
4) Due to the proprietary nature of the sophisticated electronic controls in newer still lens topologies supporting the pin outs is not going to be undertaken in the near term, if ever.

The questions: What are the trade offs in terms of ease of use and precision of alignment when comparing the two obvious choices-
1) Base PL mount with adapters. Will distance to the sensor imaging plane be an issue? Will sturdiness in the field be an issue? Swap time?
2) Direct attachment to the camera body of each type of mount; PL, Canon and Nikon. Are swap time and greater expense the only downside?

Speaking for myself, unless the extra cost or time to market for direct to the body mounting is excessive it seems like a better option - stronger and less chance for alignment issues. What about concerns that it would be tricky, dangerous to the sensor or time consuming to swap this way in the field? My feeling is that you can rig it beforehand on a bench in most cases because typically you will either be shooting all PL or all Canon or all Nikon on a given day/project.

BTW - as soon as the Red Team makes a choice on this please solicit a 3rd party to make interfaces for B4 lenses and give them the specs they need to build it. Like Gibby and others it would mean a lot to me to be able to use the RedOne in ENG/EFP mode as well as in Cine style projects and a fully enabled B4 mount solution would put a big grin on my face :).

Blair S. Paulsen
RedOne #19
 
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