Laptop for audio work

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darkaydix

Member
First: I love love love this forum, deeply. I've been lurking and reading quite a bit and I've already learned more here than I thought I would. Although I get overwhelmed very easily-- breaking into the audio world with all the technology and jargon and science is quite a lot to take in. Thanks for making it digestible :)

Okay, I've been sitting on this and sleeping on this for a while.

I'm used to Pro Tools. I really enjoy it, I like how it flows, so I'm assuming that this will be the main DAW that I'll be playing in.
Most of my work will be foley, fx, flim/video prod, radio packages, compositions, sound art, etc. I'm just graduating and that's what I've been dabbling in and enjoying. But most of what I'll be doing is sound.
(is there something else out there other than pro tools that's better for this? i know there are more)
For video, I've used and like Final Cut Pro. That would limit me immediately to a Mac (or a hackintosh, but considering the portability of a laptop, mac it is).
I've gone back and forth about laptop and desktop, but overall I think a laptop would be best. That would allow a lot of versatility in work and play, and if I wanted I could record to the laptop rather than a field recorder, etc etc. So that's that lol.
Pro Tools works on a PC. And I have owned and used PCs all my life. Used Macs too on campus, but still.

So I was curious what systems you all use, and what computers you all use. I'm not asking for a Mac vs PC. What I'm asking is what might be best for what I'm choosing to do. I enjoy video editing quite a bit, but I don't think I'd be doing that as much.
Is the Mac worth it? Or should I go for something else?
 
I'll take a crack at this though there are others here who are more qualified to answer. About acquiring to a field recorder or directly to a laptop; both have merit, but for field work, the mobility of a dedicated field recorder, with a mixer in front of it, will be the most convenient. You can read up on who likes what recorders and mixers and why, but this is the most basic audio setup.

Besides recording to cam, I have a compact 2 channel field recorder with good mixer and that is my workhorse. For recording directly to a laptop, I purchased a middle of the road firewire interface which also drives my monitors while editing, has midi, and provides 4 phantom channels for field recording and a bunch of other stuff. I am finding more use for this gixmo as time progresses, it's like having a audio swiss army knife. See link.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=motu+traveler-mk3&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

As a long term Mac user, I can't address your preference to pro-tools, but I can tell you that Logic is a good and versitile app and it integrates well with FCP. I can also tell you that the Apple system and software is very stable and Apple is pretty good about getting bugs fixed quickly. As is the case with any of this stuff, there will be folks who need a certain widget and they get that from some particular app, but probably all the major apps will do 99% of anything you need to do. It is probably more important to find the app or operating system that feeds your mojo and then take the time to learn it in depth to get the most out of it.


Grant
 
Thanks Grant, I appreciate the swift response.

I definitely want a field recorder for sure-- I wouldn't want to tote my laptop on a cart, etc. I was reading one of the threads that discussed this. I think all-in-all, a laptop would be my choice over a desktop because I could work on my projects in myriad places. That was my main point there.

I haven't messed around with Logic before. I know that Pro Tools is the "industry standard" if there is such a thing (seems to be a collection of preferences and opinions and someone out there just gets some shady statistics going lol). And because it works on a PC, that makes me think "hmm maybe I don't need to empty my wallet for a Mac" you know?

I've heard about the Traveler; not much, and I'd love to know more. It seems like a great device. Does it only work as an interface to the computer or does it work with a recorder as well? Does it allow for mixing while recording? (That's one of my worries-- I'm doing a job this summer on a low-budget, low-crew feature where I'm doing all the sound, and I can't boom and mix too well at the same time, not enough experience yet-- but something that would allow me to do that without too many hardware pieces would be great ---- my ignorance is showing: are there recorders that have the ability to mix ON them, dials and knobs and such?)



I suppose I should note, as well, that I'm on a fairly low budget at the moment as far as mics/recorders/hardware goes. The computer gets precedence with not much regard to cost because my current one is lying in an open grave! But I'm not looking at the cheapest you can go either. Unrelatedly to the thread, I'm looking at the NTG-3 and the AT4053b (or something equivalent for that one)... and recorders, I'm not even close to narrowing it down :)
 
I run ProTools LE, and have it installed on a MacBook (not Pro) for portable use. It runs just fine, and I've yet to tax the system with plug-ins. The only challenge is that the new MacBooks have no FireWire, so you're stuck with MBox USB interfaces which limits simultaneous ins and outs. However, unless you're thinking about tracking large bands or orchestras, you don't really need more than 2 simultaneous ins most of the time.

The other challenge to MacBooks is how much Final Cut you think you may want to use. Mine can do a great job with FCS, but it's pretty limited with one FW400 port. If FCS is a consideration, get a MacBook Pro.

As for the issue of a laptop in general, depending on your recording and mixing needs, you cannot isolate the fan from the recording space since the laptop is your computer, keyboard, and monitor. It can be done if you use all external components (monitor, mouse, and keyboard) and move the laptop elsewhere, but it's still a shortcoming.

I use my MB for ProTools tracking on location (Digi002 Rack interface), and for starting mixes and edits on the road. But once I get home, I move to a more powerful computer.
 
Thanks C2V :)

You move to a more powerful computer? Do MacBooks (although I'm looking at the MacBook Pro) not usually have the power to work through Pro Tools? The most tracks I've ever had open is 30, but that was on a Mac Pro (so that was plenty o' power!).

As far as the fan, is overheating a typical problem when all of that is going on? Not even with recording, but just the program itself. Again, I think I'll stick to recording on a field recorder for sure (the laptop could just provide a backup if need be).

I'd LOVE the experience and pleasure of tracking orchestras or bands-- live events would be wondrous, but I doubt I'll find a job let alone get to that skill level any time soon. Most of what I'll be doing lies in boom operator work for films (and also doing recording/mixing on set), and then going out and collecting sounds and bringing them back home (3 ins at most I would assume).
 
Having worked post both in the BayArea (Skywalker, Saul Zaentz, etc.) and in LA (Fox, Universal, and a number of small post houses) it is very clear that Pro Tools is the sound post standard in the US. If your no working with others it doesn't make that much difference but if your working on a post teem on a big market project it's pretty much a given that you need to be on PT. For very specific fields others have some market share. Fairlight gets some Foley (and FYI Foley is always capitalized) use and maybe a bit of ADR. Nuendo has a tiny slice in the US and a bit more in Europe. And there are a hand full of small players that have a little slice, but almost all are on projects where it's a one stop shop.

Personally I won't use PT for live recording unless I have to. I love it but I don't trust it to work 100% all the time every time. That is fine in post but it's lethal in the field. I use Boom Recorder when I'm laptop recording in the field, a much better option. But I only do that for big track count and or places where power isn't an issue and I have plenty of space to set up and don't have to move. I do use PT on the laptop for doing theatre work, fixing cues etc in the theatre in rehearsal because it lets me get some sleep when I get home! But I really am addicted to good monitoring and control surfaces and dual screens and a real keyboard so it's not what I use when I'm at home. I do have a friend though that does nothing but radio and she switched to using the laptop at home and just having all the stuff plugged in and a second screen etc. So it's doable. Personally I like the separation of having a work computer that I can keep pretty clean and my personal computer that has a lot more junk on it.

Decide what you want to use and get the system that works best with that software. I grew up on PC's and switched for work (PT didn't run on Win. then) so I don't have a huge preference either way. One consideration is that I have never heard a quiet PC. If your all laptop it probably doesn't make a difference but the desktop boxes sure do. There probably is a quiet PC (but it may well cost more than a Mac) but all the ones I have owned and all the ones I have heard since have all been VERY noisy. Not a big deal for picture folks but for sound it's a BIG issue. It seems like a lot of PC makers equate big and loud to "powerful". You can walk into a room with a MacPro going and not know it's on. Other than that I have heard nothing but good things about the latest Win. so??? You should check out relative performance though sinceI think the Win version of PT Le doesn't support video, that may be old news and not true at all but I think it was and may still be the case. Also the plugin support is different. I think there are fewer of the RTAS plugins that work on the PC version, but you get VST support. So it could be a plus or a minus depending if you need to send sessions with plugins to a Mac (which doesn't directly support VST).
 
darkaydix said:
You move to a more powerful computer? Do MacBooks (although I'm looking at the MacBook Pro) not usually have the power to work through Pro Tools? The most tracks I've ever had open is 30, but that was on a Mac Pro (so that was plenty o' power!).
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MacBooks do fine with ProTools LE, but the fans are loud and there's no way to isolate the fan without isolating the whole computer. If you get back home and have either a Mac Pro or even a Mac Mini (and the new Mac Mini is more than enough for PT LE), you have more flexibility to isolate fan noise.

What I was talking about was moving the project started on-location with the MacBook to a desktop in the studio for sound isloation reasons... that, and you'll get more flexible expansion and i/o with a Mac Mini or Mac Pro than you will with a MacBook.
 
C2V said:
MacBooks do fine with ProTools LE, but the fans are loud and there's no way to isolate the fan without isolating the whole computer. (and the new Mac
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:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG):Drogar-BigGrin(DBG):Drogar-BigGrin(DBG):Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)


Actually you might want to have the laptop looked at. I have found it really rare that the fan ever comes on. This is a MBP so maybe that is a difference. The fan is "loud" by Mac standards but nothing compared to the full throttle B52 sound of most of the PC's I have had to be in the same room with. At full bore the MBP fan is a lot quieter than my old G4. The G5 is near silent and MP's are at least that quiet. But my MBP get's too hot to touch (just above the keyboard) before the fan comes on and I have only had that happen when doing video work and a LOT of processing. I don't think it has ever come on doing sound.


**** correction**** putting my ear to the keyboard I can hear a whir so that is probably the fan at it's low level (or the HD? but sounds more like a very light fan). But either my hearing is completely shot or you have a misbehaving fan.
 
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Noiz2 said:
But either my hearing is completely shot or you have a misbehaving fan.
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I think it's the difference between a MacBook and a MacBook Pro. Granted, the fan on my MacBook isn't ear-splitting like a PC. In fact, it's quiet by most standards, but it's still audible and can be heard in an otherwise quiet recording/mixing environment. Plus, it only kicks in when I'm doing processor-intensive stuff with FCS or the like, but it is still something to consider in an audio setting.

I'm on it right now, and there's only the faint whir of the drive.
 
Thanks everyone :)

I also like the idea of having a work computer and a personal computer-- I'm really picky about organization and that would be best. As it stands, that's probably what my near-dead Sony Vaio will become: the messy computer that has whatever on it.
I'm leaning toward the MacBook Pro. I'd love to get another monitor as I'm currently spoiled on campus with dual monitors and LOVE that setup.

Good to know that Pro Tools is the standard, that makes me happy since I love it so much.
SPEAKING of Pro Tools, again a slightly unrelated note, anyone know of some good free or not-so-expensive plug-ins? I really loathe Time Shift, that Audio Suite plug-in. I want to be able to slow things down and draw them out but without it turning into a robotic sound. Thoughts?

Thanks again, everyone :)
 
darkaydix said:
Good to know that Pro Tools is the standard, that makes me happy since I love it so much.
SPEAKING of Pro Tools, again a slightly unrelated note, anyone know of some good free or not-so-expensive plug-ins? I really loathe Time Shift, that Audio Suite plug-in. I want to be able to slow things down and draw them out but without it turning into a robotic sound. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I've always gotten good results with the pitch and time plug-in that comes with PT, but then I've never had to make really extreme adjustments.

As for other plug-ins, Waves has a few great native packs. I suggest Musician's II and Native Power Pack as starters.
 
I'll have to check out Waves.

Yeah, usually when I'm shifting things around, it's extreme for sound art, compositions, and odd-ball projects. If I just want to tweak something to fit a meter or something minute, there's no issue. But trying to slow the time as far as it will let you, it's a mess. And it doesn't slow the time really-- it'll just make it sound odd and then repeat the same region over and over. Really frustrating..
 
The best pitch shifting plugin I have ever used is Pitch 'n Time. But it's not cheap. The pro version is what you really want to use since it's adjustable over time and it's like $800!
Good and cheap..... Don't find too many.
Massey makes some very affordable and good plugins (<$100). Roger Nichols also makes some reasonably priced, I think (>$200). The catch for me is that I got them before he bought them and the original company had them really underpriced so I got in cheap. And Rx by iZotope is a greate deal and pretty cheap with student pricing. There is also a nice sub harmonic synthisizer called LowEnder(<$100). Right now it still requires the Plugo runtime but they are making it a native RTAS and VST plugin. I think the VST part is already finished.

And you can always get hardware! Some great boxes are going for pennies on the dollar because everyone is into plugins. But that reverb box doesn't care what OS your on or if you have upgraded or not.

And lastly I would look at a ebay seller called Dutchmuzik.
He's very legit and has some great deals. You want to get on his monthly bargain newsletter list.
 
Catching up on this interesting thread;

My Intel MBPro, if it has a fan, is so quiet as to be in-audible. FWIW, the MBPro 17" has multiple FW ports also. I do 3D CAD work also, and the more powerful MBPro models will drive a 30" monitor, no problem, for 3D modeling.

Darkaydix,
The traveller is not a recorder, it is a multipurpose FW interface. It has 4 phantom preamps and more unbalanced inputs and lots of outputs which can all be programed to mix and match to your hearts content. It will take all those inputs and feed them to any FW or optical equipped CPU for recording. It has a not too effective knob controlled hardware mixing capability. It also has software control of all the hardware functions which is pretty versatile after you get past the learning curve. It will take a audio output signal from your CPU and control your monitors. It has multiple power options, pads, limiters, midi, monitor control, effects, etc. Since I already had a good laptop, this was a cheaper way to get multiple channels recorded without going to a much more expensive Sound Devices multi-track. The biggest drawback is the limited mobility. I must say that there is a whole new range of multiple channel recorders coming on the market, so do some serious research about what is now available.

Grant
 
Grant:
Ah! Well I was completely off. That sounds like a magical product lol. So it serves as a mixer through to your computer then, allowing you to have multiple multiple inputs and using your computer as a recorder.
Limited mobility would be an issue for me-- and, considering that I would probably only need 3 inputs max, the traveller wouldn't really be necessary. But damn it sounds intriguing.

I've been trying to do as much research as I can.... there's so much out there, and I'm still making my way up the learning curve. As far as mixers were concerned, I was contemplating skipping that step on the film this summer and just going straight to recorder... which could be problematic, but really, as long as I can ride my levels okay, I'm hoping that'll suffice. Maybe. Unless I can find something more mobile that will work well for me (I'll be booming, recording, mixing, and probably running around in the woods!).

Noiz2:
Yeah lol, I knew cheap wasn't really going to be below 100 bucks, depending on the packages. I would not be averse to hardware though. I'll have to check all of these out (thanks everyone-- I'm developing a good list for my toolbox!).
As far as the pitch/time, what I want to do with some of my projects is to just alter time. Keep the pitch, keep everything the same BUT the length of the region. I wish I could just take the hand tool, grab on to the waveform and PULL and STRETCH it to my hearts content :)
 
Please note that the MOTU Traveler does not work with ProTools, which is hardware-proprietary. If you go with PT, you're limited to PT interfaces, and your available i/o then depends on USB vs. FireWire. ProTools M-Powered is the exception to that rule as it will work with M-Audio hardware, but it's an even more limited version of PT than LE.
 
Well, I suppose then if I was going for the Traveler, I'd just have another capturing software, then pull that into PT? (assuming I was going to use it)
 
Yes PT only works with PT hardware (Digi bought M-Audio so that is still in-house). Not an issue for me since I don't use PT for field recording anyway. I use Boom Recorder and (usually) an Alessis FW mixer. BR works with just about any interface made and can work with a variety at the same time. The TRAVELER is well liked in production circles for having pretty good mic pres and being flexible and not needing AC.
If your booming you need to be over the shoulder with the recorder. Your just asking for problems if your not with the recorder. I did see someone with a kind of "cigarette girl" tray once with a laptop and all, so I suppose if you were determined you could do it but I wouldn't. Your back would be dead at the end of the first day for one thing.

If you get a small portable mixer/preamp like the SD MixPre you can use cheaper recorders like the Zoom and still have some seriously good quality and control. The two cost about what you would pay for a decent sized Marantz or Tascam recorder so you don't save off the bat but my MixPre has gone through three generations of recorders and is still in use so in the long run it's a cost saver. It's fine for me since 90% of what I record is stereo and 9.9% is mono. For the 0.1% that has more than two tracks I set up the computer and use BR. If you plan on doing a lot of production work then something with more inputs makes a lot of sense.

The M-Powered PT isn't so much more limited as less upgradable. If the educational version is still the same it comes with more bells and whistles than the Digi version but you can't add any of the Le upgrade packages. As with a lot of this stuff if you ask someone who's needs fit well with a product it will be "great!" and if you ask someone who's needs were missed it's "garbage". So it's important to know what you need before you go shopping and listen to the folks who are doing what you want to be doing. They will probably also disagree to a certain extent but at least they will be arguing about stuff that probably matters to you.

For instance I know there are people who use PT for production and think it's great. When I have talked to them it becomes very evident that they are working in a very different way than I and have different needs so it makes sense for them. I do a lot of "get it wrong and loose your job" kind of work so to me PT in the field is like sleeping on a train track that you know is only used once a year. 364 nights a year your fine.
 
darkaydix said:
As far as the pitch/time, what I want to do with some of my projects is to just alter time. Keep the pitch, keep everything the same BUT the length of the region. I wish I could just take the hand tool, grab on to the waveform and PULL and STRETCH it to my hearts content :)
Click to expand...

Well you can to a certain extent. You use the trimmer tool in it's time mode (unless that is a TDM only option?). But you really can't go much beyond 50 - 200% with out some very wonky things going on. You should also take a look at Melodyne which should have come with PT. It's mostly for pitch shifting but can time shift also and is very smooth. Slowing things down is one of the BIG building blocks in sound design and we used to do it with analog tape all the time. But the big reason Synclavier got so popular with sound post folks (who had the $$$$$ or a facility with $$$$$) was that they could sample at 100k and so were very smooth slowing things down. The sampler for the rest of us was the EMU E4 (at a very affordable $4K ;~) ). It didn't have the high sample rate but was great at slowing down smoothly. You can pick one up fully loaded on eBay for $300- $600, depending on the current demand. If you get the later models you can loose the SCSI internal drive and swap it out for a nice large ATA drive. Soundminer, an essential sound cataloging app for FX editors, also has a fantastically smooth speed change function and it spots directly to your PT timeline.
 
When I was first starting out I had ProTools LE with an MBox on a MacBook Pro, which I don't know how the mic pres are on the current models but mine are junk. I was using that until my hardware faulted and now only spits out white noise out of the right channel. I've been running the same MacBook Pro since 2006 and only now is it becoming sluggish, which I probably just need to reinstall the OS. Since my Mbox interface is not so much fun to work with anymore and it's very limited to it's I/O I started exploring outside of ProTools.

I found that I like Digital Performer way more than Logic. I find Logic to be illogical honestly, but it's all about preference anyway. Digital Performer can export projects pretty well with Final Cut Pro through the XML Interchange. Also like Logic, Digital Performer supports DAE mode which on ProTools HD or TDM will run as a front end interface that supports RTAS and TDM plug-ins.

I have been running Digital Performer for about 2 years now and I like what it has to offer for my post work. I also run several MOTU 896mk3 units into an Analog console all from my MacBook Pro. I haven't done a lot of field work mainly because I don't have a means for much portability and would rather go with a field mixer and recorder. I still like having ProTools on my computer, even if I have to use it annoyingly with that white noise, just to keep my "chops" up. I'm learning as many programs and hardware pieces as possible so I can be that much more flexible within the field.

So that's what I am working with over here. I like this thread a lot because I always like to know how people are running their own setups. I find it really interesting.

As for ProTools certified hardware working only ProTools, this is true. However, if there are ADAT or TOSLINK inputs you can run other pieces of hardware as an A/D converter. For instance with the aforementioned Traveler, within the CueMix software you can route your Analog inputs directly to the Optical outputs and run it as a standalone unit then into a ProTools certified interface.

For Free Plug-ins I would check out the Stillwell plugs. They have free demos that you can use forever but you can donate to their company after trying them out. You don't have to, but I think their plug-ins are worth it. http://www.stillwellaudio.com/
 
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