Komodo is Officially On Sale

davedv said:
Yes, the Blackmagic URSA Mini 12K ships with a PL mount and the URSA Mini G2 ships with an EF mount. Both cameras have user-interchangeable mounts though, so you can swap it with a different mount if needed. Blackmagic also makes a Nikon F-mount and B4 mount options (for broadcast lenses) and the different mounts aren't crazy expensive either (B4 mount is the most expensive at $385 due to the internal optics needed):
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursaminipro/techspecs/W-URSA-23

Given that the flange distance for LPL is 44mm (same as for EF mount), I think it would probably be possible to create an LPL mount as well. Not sure if this option would be popular enough for Blackmagic to create their own, but it's possible a 3rd party could develop one. Wooden Camera makes an LPL mount for the Sony Venice and RED DSMC2 cameras, for example.

c7adapters also makes some 3rd party lens mounts for various cameras (RED, Arri, Sony, etc.), including a locking EF mount for the Sony Venice. The nice thing about EF to RF mount adapters is that they require no internal electronics (it's essentially just a pass through of the EF pins through to the RF mount), which makes it easier for 3rd parties to create them.
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LPL isn’t possible on the G2 / 12k chassis, not because of the FFD but because of the width. It’s got to be designed differently.

JB
 
John Brawley said:
LPL isn’t possible on the G2 / 12k chassis, not because of the FFD but because of the width. It’s got to be designed differently.

JB
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What would be the advantage of LPL on a S35 camera? Cropping out the edges of the image circle? Sharing one set of lenses across formats? Are the large format lenses superior?
 
ahalpert said:
What would be the advantage of LPL on a S35 camera? Cropping out the edges of the image circle? Sharing one set of lenses across formats? Are the large format lenses superior?
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To be able to use it with LPL mount only lenses (Like Arri signature primes) or if being used on a LPL mount show where the other cameras are LPL mount.

JB
 
ahalpert said:
RED CONTROL for Komodo is out - smartphone app wireless video and control over wifi.
Someone on newsshooter commented that it has about a 3-frame lag. How do you guys feel about that? (Kubrick never would have tolerated that, haha.)
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3 frames of latency is actually pretty good for wi-fi monitoring on a phone. In order to transmit video over wi-fi network bandwidths typically requires some form of video compression, which would incur at least 1 frame of latency (for intraframe compression, more for interframe). And then wi-fi data transmission incurs some additional latency, usually around 2-6 ms depending on the wi-fi network. Then there is also usually a bit of processing and display latency on the mobile device end as well. So realistically, probably 1.5 to 2 frames is about the best you can do with this type of approach.

For less latency, you'd typically need to use an uncompressed video output like SDI or HDMI. And a lot of cameras have a couple of frames of latency even over their physical video ports as well.

The bigger question I would have is, what is the maximum video monitoring resolution possible for wi-fi transmission. The wi-fi monitoring apps on lot of cameras are often below HD resolution which can make it difficult for things like judging focus.
 
Tamerlin said:
You wouldn't want to capture the fuzziness without enough resolution! It wouldn't be sharp! :D
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To be honest, the Gemini 5K, which is likely the camera with the anamorphics, is not a "sharp" camera by today's standards. It does still by default have a bit of that "RED" edge to the contrast, which gives it a video feel, even with the softest roll off. I believe it is just difficult for any video camera to get good midtones, soft roll off, and clean shadows without at least 14 stops DR. Although, lighting certainly can fix that. (lighting? who does lighting? haha)

With most cameras going to 5.7 or 6K, when shooting spherical, the Gemini has a softness. When shooting anamorphic, the sensor height and 3K vertical resolution mean it is resolving as much or more than some ~6K s35 cameras. Also, about 800 (~30%) more pixels that the Alexa, and about the same as the Alexa LF. So, when talking wide open Kaowa's, yeah, the Gemini ends up being overkill, but not by much, considering the options. But I would assume, that they used the Gemini for most of the anamorphic work, because it would be a larger sensor area and get more of a true anamorphic perspective.

There is a whole article on the thing, but I didn't read the whole thing. I did see a sentence that mentioned the Gemini was used for most of the bike riggings shot, which surprised me. May have been due to the Gemini being better in low light, or them just not wanting to waste time rigging the Komodo for everything. But that was about the most interesting tidbit I got. The premise of the commercial is silly to me, as they are saying "F that" about the music, yet the music is so integral and important to the feel of this advert, that it really doesn't make sense. "F that symphony.... but let's also keep the music going, because the motorcycle sounds alone can't give you the feels....even though we're pretending it can....." I get that in reality, there are plenty of people that would prefer riding a bike than going to hear an orchestra, but it is still a some-what silly and contradictory commercial. Music is amazing, and it elevates this non-sensical piece. But advertising these days is certainly more about the feeling than the logic. And I have a hard time believing that an Italian motor company such as Ducati dislikes classical music.

Main reason I posted it, was that drone shot. We have certainly entered a new era of drone work. We have the Komodo (global shutter), the A7s3(super low light shooting), freefly wave(High fps slomo), and the R5 (8K raw) to do some next level things with.
 
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I want an electric bike with the V-12 sound piped in through the headphones.

V-12 would have to be from a Daimler Benz 600-601-605 series for that extra oomph.
 
DLD said:
I want an electric bike with the V-12 sound piped in through the headphones.

V-12 would have to be from a Daimler Benz 600-601-605 series for that extra oomph.
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With a bit of classical music mixed in there for full feels.
 
Reminds me of a Cirque du Soliel show we took Suzy's mom to a few years ago. Big circus ring style thrust stage with proscenium curtained off at the back. Long center ramp rising about 8 -10 feet to platform height behind the proscenium with side ramps rising up and offstage to the left and right sides of the platform and curtained entrances below the platforms.
We were seated front row center at the front edge of the stage. Complete blackout.
A motorcycle starts up off stage. Sounds big and loud as the rider blips the throttle and comes roaring down a side ramp across the stage and up the other side. All we can see are glistening chrome handle bars, the rider's white gloved hands, a bright headlight, a tail light. The rider stops, blips the throttle, turns back down the side ramp then turns down the center ramp at roaring full throttle and speed directly toward us getting closer and closer, faster and faster until we wonder if he can possibly stop in time when a bright spot light suddenly pops on, the sound disappears, and we are staring at a clown holding the handlebars frozen still in the light. No bike.
 
RED Control has been out for a while. Been using it for about 2 months now with my Stormtrooper Komodo. It is perfectly fine for pulling focus for 95% of shots and I am not sure I would even say there is a 3 frame lag. I would be fine relying on it for the majority of focus pulling I do, especially tracking shots on gimbals where I am almost always at F4 and above. Only issue I could see with latency would be shooting wide open on fast moving subjects (say tracking talents face wide open while they move) it could create some delay between the focus puller and what the visual feed is showing but even here I haven't had any problems yet. It actually appears that RED Control App has less latency than some dedicated wireless setups it just doesn't have as much range (see below)...



ahalpert said:
RED CONTROL for Komodo is out - smartphone app wireless video and control over wifi

https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/10/26/red-control-released-for-komodo-wireless-video-control/

Pretty cool!

Someone on newsshooter commented that it has about a 3-frame lag. How do you guys feel about that? (Kubrick never would have tolerated that, haha.)
Click to expand...
 
I personally would have to disagree and say that Gemini is not a soft camera at all. Soft shots are a direct result of the lenses or simply missing focus. I own a Gemini and with the right lens I can get images so sharp I could fool many that it is 8k resolution as long as you don't need to punch in or re-frame. I actually find myself using Hollywood Black Magic filters on my Leica-R's or Canon FD's which are both softer lenses to begin with even with Gemini. I have never had an issue with the sensor being too soft nor too sharp and to me it is one of the more filmic sensors out there on the market right now with a perfect balance of sharpness and smoothness. I would put it up there with Alexa Mini which I rent from time to time and the Gemini's sensor is even better for Anamorphic. I have shot on P+S Technik Kowa Evolution and Lomo Anamorphic's as well as other vintage spherical lenses with Gemini and wide open the image is soft as to be expected but shooting on Monstro or Helium would not fix that issue it would just give you a larger frame (i.e. more resolution) but not any extra sharpness or micro-contrast which are characteristics of the lens. The funny thing is I actually see no difference in sharpness from any of the RED cameras when placed into a 4k or 2k timeline. I have shot with Monstro and Gemini and intercut between the two and you can't tell a difference unless you re-frame where extra resolution counts. Sharpness and contrast is different than "resolution" and more resolution really only allows for re-framing and some noise reduction via down-scaling. I chose Gemini specifically because it gave me sufficient sharpness, beautiful micro-contrast, the most dynamic range out of any RED camera to date, low-light performance, high frame rates (with minimal or no cropping of the sensor) but at less of an expense in terms of media storage and file sizes compared to Helium or Monstro. Helium is actually a smaller (narrower) sensor than Gemini with smaller photo sites. Smaller photo sites means less surface area for light absorption (i.e. worse highlight rolloff, noise in underexposure, etc.). Gemini has the largest photo sites and pixel pitch out of any RED ever made and ever larger than Monstro. The Helium is actually my least favorite camera by RED and I have shot on Monstro, Dragon, Komodo (Also Own), Scarlet-W, Gemini (Own), and Helium. Most people don't need 8k or 12k resolution and the majority of productions that do use it need it for green-screen work. Outside of those large production environments, most of the time 8k is being published at 4k or even 2k/1080. What client asks for 8k outside of large high dollar productions? So I found 5-6k as a happy medium between enough resolution for a 2k or 4k deliverable while keeping cost of storage down which really translates onto the client and their cost of post-production at the end of the day. Most of the time I am a single-op who edit's and colors the majority of my own work and for me 8k or even 12k (Ursa mini pro) just doesn't make sense when the majority of consumer 4k TV's in peoples houses are still up-scaling 1080 on a daily basis. 8K-12K resolution I will gladly rent when the client needs it but I can give them 100 reasons why they typically do not.


James0b57 said:
To be honest, the Gemini 5K, which is likely the camera with the anamorphics, is not a "sharp" camera by today's standards. It does still by default have a bit of that "RED" edge to the contrast, which gives it a video feel, even with the softest roll off. I believe it is just difficult for any video camera to get good midtones, soft roll off, and clean shadows without at least 14 stops DR. Although, lighting certainly can fix that. (lighting? who does lighting? haha)

With most cameras going to 5.7 or 6K, when shooting spherical, the Gemini has a softness. When shooting anamorphic, the sensor height and 3K vertical resolution mean it is resolving as much or more than some ~6K s35 cameras. Also, about 800 (~30%) more pixels that the Alexa, and about the same as the Alexa LF. So, when talking wide open Kaowa's, yeah, the Gemini ends up being overkill, but not by much, considering the options. But I would assume, that they used the Gemini for most of the anamorphic work, because it would be a larger sensor area and get more of a true anamorphic perspective.

There is a whole article on the thing, but I didn't read the whole thing. I did see a sentence that mentioned the Gemini was used for most of the bike riggings shot, which surprised me. May have been due to the Gemini being better in low light, or them just not wanting to waste time rigging the Komodo for everything. But that was about the most interesting tidbit I got. The premise of the commercial is silly to me, as they are saying "F that" about the music, yet the music is so integral and important to the feel of this advert, that it really doesn't make sense. "F that symphony.... but let's also keep the music going, because the motorcycle sounds alone can't give you the feels....even though we're pretending it can....." I get that in reality, there are plenty of people that would prefer riding a bike than going to hear an orchestra, but it is still a some-what silly and contradictory commercial. Music is amazing, and it elevates this non-sensical piece. But advertising these days is certainly more about the feeling than the logic. And I have a hard time believing that an Italian motor company such as Ducati dislikes classical music.

Main reason I posted it, was that drone shot. We have certainly entered a new era of drone work. We have the Komodo (global shutter), the A7s3(super low light shooting), freefly wave(High fps slomo), and the R5 (8K raw) to do some next level things with.
Click to expand...
 
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sleekmedia said:
I personally would have to disagree and say that Gemini is not a soft camera at all. Soft shots are a direct result of the lenses or simply missing focus.
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That is true, and of course the higher the resolution the more evident your focus miss becomes.

However, there's another factor that affects perceived sharpness, and that is contrast.

When I was using my first cinema camera, one of the BMD 2.5K cameras, I learned pretty quickly how much the low contrast created an impression of softness; just adding a gentle S curve in post made properly focused footage suddenly look tack sharp. With the new gamma curves that BMD has developed, actually SEEING that flat footage looking soft almost never happens any more. IPP2 did the same for Red footage, though I suspect that a lot of people who want to use or own Reds only for the cachet don't know about that yet, so they still preview the flat log footage that ends up looking soft as a result.

8K-12K resolution I will gladly rent when the client needs it but I can give them 100 reasons why they typically do not.
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I have a Helium and have yet to work on a single film project that needed that much. I have on occasion used that excess resolution as a fringe benefit for the stills that I pulled, but that's about it. So I have a very nice shot of the Kye Monstary in Himachan Pradesh (for example) that I can make fine art prints from... but the end result of the film side of that will most likely be 2K. It's definitely overkill, but I knew that when I ordered it. What swayed me wasn't the resolution, it was the color rendition combined with the generous discount.
 
DLD said:
I want an electric bike with the V-12 sound piped in through the headphones.

V-12 would have to be from a Daimler Benz 600-601-605 series for that extra oomph.
Click to expand...

Comparing Easy Rider to Long Way Up, there was not a bit of bike problem in ER. Strike the 'riff, ..The Pusher..
 
sleekmedia said:
I personally would have to disagree and say that Gemini is not a soft camera at all.
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You can disagree, but there is no getting around the physics of the down sample to 4K from 5K bayer.



There is a reason the Gemini is growing in popularity. it is an awesome sensor that is also more than 4K. It looks fantastic. Only the Venice and Arri sensors are better, but they aren't better in every way. The gemini is unique enough to be its own best sensor.
 
I personally think a lot of it comes down to pixel pitch and the size of the photo sites. Obviously sensor size, max resolution format, dynamic range, and color bit depth are very important factors as well. I have listed some of the top competition cameras from professional to prosumer in order of pixel pitch and overall size of photo sites.

Sony A7siii - $5000
+/- 12 DR (Usable Stops)
4k @ 10-bit / 16-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 35.60mm x 23.80mm
Photosite Pitch: 8.40 μm

ALEXA Mini LF +/- $70-80,000
+/- 14 DR (Usable Stops)
4.5k @ 16 - bit RAW
Sensor Size: 36.70 x 25.54 mm
Photosite Pitch: 8.25 μm

ALEXA Mini +/- $40-50,000
+/- 14 DR (Usable Stops)
3424 x 2202 @ 16-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 23.8 x 17.8 mm
Photosite Pitch: 8.1 μm

Canon C300iii $11,000
+/- 13.5 DR (Usable Stops)
6k @ 12-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 26.2 x 13.8 mm
Photosite Pitch: 6.40 μm

RED Gemini +/- $30,000
+/- 13.5 DR (Usable Stops)
5k @ 16-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 30.72 x 18mm
Photosite Pitch: 6.0 μm

Sony Venice +/- $50,000
+/- 14 DR (Usable Stops)
6k @ 16-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 36.2 x 24.1 mm
Photosite Pitch: 6.0 μm

Red Monstro +/- $70,000
+/- 13.5 DR (Usable Stops)
8k @ 16-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 40.96 x 21.60 mm
Photosite Pitch: 5.0 μm

RED Komodo +/- $10,000
+/- 12.5 DR (Usable Stops)
6k @ 16-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 27.03 mm x 14.26 mm
Photosite Pitch: 4.40 μm

Canon R5 $5000
+/- 12 DR (Usable Stops)
8k @ 10-bit / 12-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 36 x 24 mm
Photosite Pitch: 4.38 μm

BMP6K $2,000
+/- 12 DR (Usable Stops)
6k @ 12-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 23.1 x 12.99 mm
Photosite Pitch: 3.76 μm

RED Helium +/- $40,000
+/- 13 DR (Usable Stops)
8k @ 16-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 29.90 mm × 15.77mm
Photosite Pitch: 3.65 μm

BMUMP12K $10,000
+/- 13 DR (Usable Stops)
12k @ 12-bit RAW
Sensor Size: 27.03mm x 14.25mm
Photosite Pitch: 2.20 μm
 
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