Komodo is Officially On Sale

[NorBro]

Barely shipping but it's on there.

There was a time when this list was brutally slow with its updates, but I guess they have more time on their hands these days...

https://www.cined.com/red-komodo-now-netflix-approved/

 

[Guest]

Ah well, RED is creating fake demand now. Haha.

Jarred Land posted on his instagram that they are removing the buy option from the Komodo on RED.com

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH0nZmXhFMK/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link




They likely sold a boat load, but knowing RED, this feels more like they didn't sell as much as they hoped, and now creating false demand. At their first trade show they put up "sold out" signs on their booth, even though they didn't, because Jim January says "you always end the show being sold out" (paraphrasing).

Interesting times.

 

[DLD]

They should raise the price to $10,000, then offer a temporary discount to $6,000 on the "hurry while the supplies last" principle.

Ya, I worked consumer electronics retail. In California.

 

[NorBro]

Everyone does that....you always see prices crossed out that are much higher, replaced with a new price that sometimes shows it's "available for a limited time only".

RED did something similar with the Raven... $5950 (hurry before price goes up) --> $6950 (hurry before price goes up) --> $8950 (discontinued).

 

[Guest]

Everyone does that....you always see prices crossed out that are much higher with a new price that sometimes shows it's "available for a limited" time only.

RED did something similar with the Raven... $5995 (hurry before price goes up) --> $6995 (hurry before price goes up) --> $9995 (discontinued).

I only say it, because it does appear RED is drowning. Jarred went on a little vacation to "just shoot again", which in psychology means he is stressed the **** out.

They may still be making good money on their raw 4K+ patent, but it will be interesting to see if they have anything up their sleeve going forward, as the technical hurdles to get another 10% out of CMOS seem to be very difficult, given that no one has done it without DGO.

 

[NorBro]

RED makes absolutely amazing cameras, some of my favorite.

I don't know what their future holds, but they desperately need more features and more lower-priced cameras to compete as that decade-long prominent gap in IQ just doesn't exist anymore for 99% of users.

 

[Guest]

RED makes absolutely amazing cameras, some of my favorite.

I don't know what their future holds, but they desperately need more features and more lower-priced cameras to compete as that decade-long prominent gap in IQ just doesn't exist anymore for 99% of users.

Agreed. I just don't know what they have left? A sensor in a box with raw just doesn't cut it anymore, and that is all RED has really been able to pull off.


This round, I still feel the RED Monstro and Gemini are a cut above the latest from Canikony, other than the Venice, but the Venice is at Arri prices. So, RED is still in a class of their own. But in two years?

The Komodo footage is looking to be a hint better than the Fx6 and C70 footage, but the Canikonies have some incredibly convenient built in features that would perhaps be the bigger pay off in getting the shot. So, the market for the Komodo is limited to fanboys and those dedicated to the extra 2% better image quality, and willing to pay more for less. I would. But even I am pausing now. I am thinking about actually shooting, and feeling like I wold get more "keepers" with a C70. That is tough for me to accept. haha.

 

[Run&Gun]

Ah well, RED is creating fake demand now. Haha.

Jarred Land posted on his instagram that they are removing the buy option from the Komodo on RED.com

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH0nZmXhFMK/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link


View attachment 141352

They likely sold a boat load, but knowing RED, this feels more like they didn't sell as much as they hoped, and now creating false demand. At their first trade show they put up "sold out" signs on their booth, even though they didn't, because Jim January says "you always end the show being sold out" (paraphrasing).

Interesting times.

They should raise the price to $10,000, then offer a temporary discount to $6,000 on the "hurry while the supplies last" principle.

Ya, I worked consumer electronics retail. In California.

Everyone does that....you always see prices crossed out that are much higher, replaced with a new price that sometimes shows it's "available for a limited time only".

RED did something similar with the Raven... $5950 (hurry before price goes up) --> $6950 (hurry before price goes up) --> $8950 (discontinued).

Speaking of... Has anyone noticed(and received an email from) Litepanels in the last few weeks dropping the price on the Gemini 1x1's? Currently $1686. They debuted at over $2500 and then quickly, there was a "group buy" that put them at a more reasonable $1888(I bought two then and don't regret it), before settling in around $2400 most recently.

After the original Gemini 2x1 "fiasco", one of my dealers said they were no longer going to stock them, because of the volatility of LP's pricing and LP doing end-arounds around "other" dealers and leaving them stuck with "overpriced" stock they could then no longer move.

 

[Guest]

Speaking of... Has anyone noticed(and received an email from) Litepanels in the last few weeks dropping the price on the Gemini 1x1's? Currently $1686. They debuted at over $2500 and then quickly, there was a "group buy" that put them at a more reasonable $1888(I bought two then and don't regret it), before settling in around $2400 most recently.

After the original Gemini 2x1 "fiasco", one of my dealers said they were no longer going to stock them, because of the volatility of LP's pricing and LP doing end-arounds around "other" dealers and leaving them stuck with "overpriced" stock they could then no longer move.

Very difficult times for these rebranding companies, as in a global economy, the "middle men" can also sell product direct. So things like lights and sensors in a box are not a competitive advantage, without a more thorough design philosophy. Nothing is rare or special. All of these manufacturing companies weren't going to standby forever, once they saw the profit margins.

Red just has never shown it can be be a company that caters to professional users. They always mess something up, or omit something simple that could have been nice. Or that SSD thing, were it isn't even certain if they are QC'ing their cheap media. Very much head scratchers. Now at the time, it was whatever, because if no one is competing, then who cares, right? But Red has a ton of competition right now, and they are still chugging along and making cameras design by interns and marketing professionals at a raging kegger (I do wish they would invite me).

 

[Guest]

If RED can actually keep the demand high for the Komodo, that should help the rental market out. But that doesn't feel like a business strategy for RED.

 

[Run&Gun]

If RED can actually keep the demand high for the Komodo, that should help the rental market out. But that doesn't feel like a business strategy for RED.

The biggest enemy to the rental market for RED cameras are RED camera OWNERS. They treat buying a camera like buying a car. Once they get it, they'll let anyone ride in it for free.

Do I get bonus points for getting a car analogy in there?

 

[Guest]

The biggest enemy to the rental market for RED cameras are RED camera OWNERS. They treat buying a camera like buying a car. Once they get it, they'll let anyone ride in it for free.

Do I get bonus points for getting a car analogy in there?

Totally agree on that.

Sharegrid is also abysmal. Definitely did to rental houses what Uber did to Taxi's. It is cheaper, but no one is making money. haha. Double car points. We are entering multi combo car reference territory.

 

[DLD]

... Do I get bonus points for getting a car analogy in there?

No, because then you would have to mention the new BRZ.

Which is oddly enough in a fairly similar spot as Red. In an of itself, it's a decent product that is squeezed on the performance by its own WRX, while its twin-brother-from-another-mother Toyota 86 is constrained by its 2 liter turbo Supra. So, they made BRZ with the officially claimed 228 hp, leaving the third parties to make super or turbo chargers for that extra oomph. But that would drive the price 6-8 grand higher.

Red is squeezed in by the ARRI LF models from the top and Sonycan from the bottom. Mini LF replaced "boxes with sensors" and full size pretty much whatever was acceptable for Netflix. Meanwhile, the YouTube, corporate/interview, wedding/bar mitzvah ought to be more than happy with far more practical A7SIII, C300 MKIII, FX-6 and C70. (with C200's, C300 MKII, FS-7 and even GH-5's happily picking up the lower-middle portion of the market as legacy product).

And Red is in the spot where it can't move enough units. Which was predictable.

BTW, a few nights ago, I was walking past a Russian deli/restaurant ... quite a few folks sitting on the outside patio, with someone shooting some promo clip for it. A franknrig'ish type setup ... sticks, external monitor/recorder ... looked like a Sony mirrorless but, when I tried to take a peek, the guy in charge stepped in ... but that's enough quality for a restaurant ...

 

[Guest]

No, because then you would have to mention the new BRZ.

Which is oddly enough in a fairly similar spot as Red. In an of itself, it's a decent product that is squeezed on the performance by its own WRX, while its twin-brother-from-another-mother Toyota 86 is constrained by its 2 liter turbo Supra. So, they made BRZ with the officially claimed 228 hp, leaving the third parties to make super or turbo chargers for that extra oomph. But that would drive the price 6-8 grand higher.

Red is squeezed in by the ARRI LF models from the top and Sonycan from the bottom. Mini LF replaced "boxes with sensors" and full size pretty much whatever was acceptable for Netflix. Meanwhile, the YouTube, corporate/interview, wedding/bar mitzvah ought to be more than happy with far more practical A7SIII, C300 MKIII, FX-6 and C70. (with C200's, C300 MKII, FS-7 and even GH-5's happily picking up the lower-middle portion of the market as legacy product).

And Red is in the spot where it can't move enough units. Which was predictable.

BTW, a few nights ago, I was walking past a Russian deli/restaurant ... quite a few folks sitting on the outside patio, with someone shooting some promo clip for it. A franknrig'ish type setup ... sticks, external monitor/recorder ... looked like a Sony mirrorless but, when I tried to take a peek, the guy in charge stepped in ... but that's enough quality for a restaurant ...

solid car references.

btw, does that deli have pastrami?

 

[Guest]

Despite being over sold, RED is still promoting the Komodo on instagram. I got an advert on my scrolling feed from Red.com promoting the Komodo as 'now on sale'. Either that is a poorly delayed ad, or Komodo's are not actually selling as well as they hoped. Would even assume their early bird custom colour batch didn't do as well as they had hoped.

I'd like to be wrong, as I'd like to see a competitor like RED stay in the game, but I'm just not seeing it.

 

[DLD]

... btw, does that deli have pastrami?

It's a Russian rather than a Jewish deli, so I believe theirs is prepackaged. Sunny Isles, to those who visited the greater Miami area, had one of the most famous Jewish delis ever, Wolfie Cohen's the Rascal House. Back in 1978, Bee Gees (neighbors of sorts) made a video for the "Saturday Night Fever" single just driving up and down Collins Avenue with the giant RH sigh prominently featured in the clip. The Rascal House itself was taken over by the Jerry's Deli around 2004 but closed a few years ago. It's been sitting empty since then. I came here for the first time in 1998 - line out of the door. But the neighborhood changed a lot too.

As to Red, it kind of smells fishy. As a direct sales model, their $15,000-$35,000 cameras probably averaged around 70% profit margin (Apple's and most smartphone manufacturers' cost-to-price ratio is about 1/3rd despite having to face intense competition), especially if you include the grossly overpriced accessories. Officially, they sell via other retailers too but the "first come, first reserve" policy had to have allocated very few units to the like of the B&H. Komodo's success or lack thereof notwithstanding, the Red bread and butter is in the Gemini-Dragon-Helium range, which are above the Canons and the Sony FX/FS but below the ARRI Alexa LF. Those would be the sales numbers to track. Red, as a private company, isn't going to publish them but there are always secondary sources (the rental houses, the used equipment sites) to consult.

 

[Run&Gun]

I've seen owners/users on RU that have been reporting the camera throwing errors when trying to record in ProRes.

 

[Guest]

I've seen owners/users on RU that have been reporting the camera throwing errors when trying to record in ProRes.

Ha, more beta testing, even after 5yrs of development and a year of 'announcement' beta testing, they release an unfinished camera. Just wild. Man, I really wish they could do it. And they never do.

They've been posting camera and sensor engineer and developer positions on LinkedIn a lot. They are either ramping up, or they fired everyone during the pandemic. Or likely they only have a very small team on permanently, and hire on temp positions when s*%t hits the fan.

The thing is I like using their cameras, and at time they are easier for me to get the shot than the Sony or Canon Variants, I just hate seeing them flounder about. They were pretty close to winning people over with the reception of the Monstro and Gemini lately. And to be honest, those cameras still deliver, I am just talking about Red's perpetual Beta. But it isn't like I love the designs and ergonomics of some of Canon or Sony's options even recently. But they just seem to deliver cameras with less goofs or surprises, Whereas RED is up against Arri and Venice, but ends up having some Black Magic level issues.

 

[Razz16mm]

Gross margins over manufacturing costs is not a useful metric for determining relative product value. It doesn’t take into account the substantial engineering and development costs that precede production. Those costs are proportionally much higher as a percentage of sale price for a small specialized company like Red especially since they do design and develop their own sensors and custom processing chips.

 

[Guest]

Gross margins over manufacturing costs is not a useful metric for determining relative product value. It doesn’t take into account the substantial engineering and development costs that precede production. Those costs are proportionally much higher as a percentage of sale price for a small specialized company like Red especially since they do design and develop their own sensors and custom processing chips.

After using RED's vs other brands for over a decade, I tend to think RED is not putting much into their products. Most everything they implement typically already exists and they repurpose it... which is why I am ok with their prices, because if no one else is making what they make for the price, then why complain, right? After all, RED is putting all those parts into a nice pretty package and it works.

However, I tend to think they are "spec-ing" their sensors, rather than designing. Every other cinema sensor, from the F55 on up is tuned at a whole other level. RED sensors are obviously top tier stuff, but they are kind of just plopped on the table like a turkey without any dish to hold it.

Most of the ingenuity from RED is hiding the off the shelf parts. Like their mags, and their LCD display connectors, etc.

Their implementations are sloppy, and they utilize their buyer base to do some of the beta testing, and they still release sloppy simple cameras. And they brilliantly offloaded millions of man-hours of customer support to their online forum. I get redirected to the forum by their customer support and staff.

The top handle, called the production handle, on the RED, was made about a half a centimeter too low, so if you want to rig an EVF mount to the top 15mm rails, the handle bumps into the EVF 15mm bone bracket! And their 15mm top rail adapter, was made for the DSMC2, so when using it on the Red Ranger, the mount doesn't sit very secure. ...Secure enough, but for a $250 part, you'd think RED could reorder a custom piece for their Ranger buyers. Plus, the idea is to buy two, so after taxes, it is nearly a $600 purchase for something that seems crappy. But hey, have to get the RED brand so that renters like it.

I'd build my own camera with similar results, but don't think I could afford a one off, nor do I want to spend ten years of my life doing so, and RED might sue me for having internal RAW in the end anyways

THAT ALL SAID... you do get your money's worth in today's market when you buy a RED. If only because there is no competition in that space. For example, you pay through the nose for a DSMC2 camera, but you get a sensor that is 2+yrs ahead of the competition in image quality and is half the price of Arri. Sony didn't even have a truly competitive camera until the Venice, so RED enjoyed a near 10yr gap all to themselves.


RED is improving over time. They are getting more sophisticated..... but seeing the Komodo, I am on the fence still about their future capabilities. But I fear they may just be a little too sloppily managed for a tech company. I had hoped with Jarred running things their camera ergonomics might at least improve, but seeing the things coming out of GDU, it is unclear that will actually happen.