Komodo is Officially On Sale

[Guest]

The DSLR vs. the Betacam shape battle is the ongoing fight between the pro and the consumer divisions of the manufacturers. Hypoparenthetically, none of the A7S or the GH-4/5 designs had to look like a DSLR. Nor did they have to be as physically small. Nonetheless ...

What I like about the DSLR/Mirrorless cameras, is that they are essentially a box, like any camera, but if one choose, they can run around with it completely stripped down, and it will still be ergonomic to work with.

The only thing, is that they just keep sticking HDMI in the wrong place. Sony could have just modified an A7s3 to have the internal ND instead of the IBIS, and then put BNC port somewhere and still charged the $2K or $3K premium. But that is hardly neither here nor there. I have been harping about DSLR mirrorless advantages for a decade now and it still has made one iota of a difference. haha.


The Komodo is alright, but is limited to below the chest angles unless it is rigged with a monitor of sorts.

 

[Guest]

Nah, I meant one with a flip-out screen, serves as a second handle.

Yes, I was really surprised by how well the flimsy 60D held up. There were plenty of times I thought I might snap if off, in particular at a music festival, stuck in the middle of people dancing and shoving about. I can imagine if they made one with any sort of strength it would do well. I am interested to see how the C70 is.

Though, to be honest, I kind of also like having the S1H style EVF, though admittedly I would rarely use it, vs the floppy screen and floppy screen + diopter. But I like having both. Is that weird?

 

[combatentropy]

Nope! I would normally use the flippy screen, but a nice viewfinder is useful too.

 

[combatentropy]

What I like about the DSLR/Mirrorless cameras, is that they are essentially a box, like any camera, but if one choose, they can run around with it completely stripped down, and it will still be ergonomic to work with.

excellent point

 

[Guest]

Nope! I would normally use the flippy screen, but a nice viewfinder is useful too.

It is an odd thing, but sometimes tucking the elbows in and pressing the eye piece to the eye and shooting that way lens another attitude and possibilities, I feel. In particular with IBIS and gyro data these days. But when I am running around, typically I like the floppy screen with a diopter that I can rip off or flip up depending on the situation.

The S1H is the first mirrorless camera to have a truly good EVF built in. Though most of the time I need more flexible camera placement, so floppy screen get most of the glory. Just nice to have both. Oh and one of those old school displays that show settings. I still like having those too. I know that doesn't leave much room for BNC and XLR. bahaha.

 

[Guest]

excellent point

Just looking at the C70 again, I kind of chuckled, as it reminded me of the franken-mock-up I sent you a while back.

 

[combatentropy]

Wow, that's right! I guess you'll be getting a C70?

 

[Guest]

Teddy posted this on the Fx6 thread, but figured it was worth posting here too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z-xB5dnIfk

Shows the challenges Red is facing with its "superior" sensor and "superior" codec in a box business tactic.... They just don't have the leads on Canikony any more. The Komodo's saving feature is the global shutter.

EDIT - It is worth mentioning that the Komodo is 6K s35 and global shutter, so it makes sense that the Sony 4K FF35 sensor might do better. However, the whole "Komodo as an A cam" is a little over hyped, as at the end of the day, cameras like the A7s3, Fx6, and C70 are looking to have more useful features to camera operators and DP's than the Komodo. Of course there will be specific shooters that have reasons for going Komodo, it just is that Red no longer occupies an objectively better sensor space. they all have different strengths.

The Komodo does look like a very nice stunt camera. But it is no wonder they rushed it to market to try and beat Sony and Canon to entice buyers.

 

[Run&Gun]

Teddy posted this on the Fx6 thread, but figured it was worth posting here too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z-xB5dnIfk

Shows the challenges Red is facing with its "superior" sensor and "superior" codec in a box business tactic.... They just don't have the leads on Canikony any more. The Komodo's saving feature is the global shutter.

EDIT - It is worth mentioning that the Komodo is 6K s35 and global shutter, so it makes sense that the Sony 4K FF35 sensor might do better. However, the whole "Komodo as an A cam" is a little over hyped, as at the end of the day, cameras like the A7s3, Fx6, and C70 are looking to have more useful features to camera operators and DP's than the Komodo. Of course there will be specific shooters that have reasons for going Komodo, it just is that Red no longer occupies an objectively better sensor space. they all have different strengths.

The Komodo does look like a very nice stunt camera. But it is no wonder they rushed it to market to try and beat Sony and Canon to entice buyers.

Komodo as an "A cam" is mostly from the same broke d!**s that ran 5D's and other DSLR's as A cams, because... Well, do I really have to say it? And it's already pretty damn tiresome over on RU with all the guys complaining and wanting all of these 'higher level cam' features added to it. I'm not knocking the camera, because I may get one, but it's not an "A cam" and all that that entails(more/higher frame rates, codecs/compression, etc...). But some people just don't get it. RED put out a damn spec sheet that tells you what it does RIGHT NOW. If that meets your needs, there 'ya go. If not, move on...

One of the biggest drawbacks of RED is that "certain" segment of their users.

 

[Guest]

Komodo as an "A cam" is mostly from the same broke d!**s that ran 5D's and other DSLR's as A cams, because... Well, do I really have to say it? And it's already pretty damn tiresome over on RU with all the guys complaining and wanting all of these 'higher level cam' features added to it. I'm not knocking the camera, because I may get one, but it's not an "A cam" and all that that entails(more/higher frame rates, codecs/compression, etc...). But some people just don't get it. RED put out a damn spec sheet that tells you what it does RIGHT NOW. If that meets your needs, there 'ya go. If not, move on...

One of the biggest drawbacks of RED is that "certain" segment of their users.

Agreed!

I have to laugh at all the people that are almost demanding 120fps in 6K, hahaha! Or the absolute best is those wanting a no crop downscale to 4K ... get this... in raw!!!! hahahahaha!

 

[Guest]

Wow, that's right! I guess you'll be getting a C70?

Pretty close! The Canon DGO puts their sensors closer to Sony in terms of DR. Will have to see what they do with the rumoured "R1", as I might want the extra EVF. lol. ...but that DGO though

 

[Guest]

If that meets your needs, there 'ya go. If not, move on...

Despite the Komodo lagging behind the A7s... mhmm... Fx6, the Komodo has higher end tuning on their sensor. The Sony's looks like it is going all yellow just before clipping, whereas the C3003 and Komodo do better going into clipping. The Canon's still have that overly desaturated look to their highlights and shadows. I think the Komodo is doing quite well. However, this does seem to confirm what I was seeing before about the Komodo's contrast curve, it seems like it is trying to look like it has more DR at default. Phil Holland and other early reviews commented on the "creamier" look, but if the DR is less, that roll off is either going to get cut short or midtones are going to suffer. This may help if match with Monstro, Alexa, Gemini, and Venice more quickly on a time line.

Over all, the improvements in the Komodo's shadows performance and CMOS smear are exciting, and curious to see where that leads in future DSMC3 sensors. I do think Red should skew the shadows a hint more of that "Kodak cyan", just a hint, it can still be green, just not the horror-thriller/Fincher green.

 

[Guest]

Such as a global shutter sensor with nearly the same dynamic range as Helium, but with autofocus support?

Right, try again.

I had to dig up an online test, since I didn't want to just say this without some form of proof. Sony announced the F55 back in 2012!!!, a global shutter camera with nearly the same DR as the Helium. As for autofocus, the Komodo is still being worked on, and it is not in the same league as Sony or Canon yet. To your point, it is cool to now have a GS sensor with auto focus. And to be quite honest, I like the Komodo overall, and think it will make an incredible tool in the current Red eco system, however, I am only discussing the future of Red, as the game has changed and things are looking really competitive, and for the first time, Sony has engulfed the Red eco system with Venice being better at the top and the Fx6 being more well rounded at the bottom. That will not sway the current owners, but going forward, the move is really Red's to make.



https://vimeo.com/140441330

(Additional thought - prior to Sony releasing the Venice, Fx9, Fx6, and A7s3, Red only had to compete with the F55, F65, and Fs7, all cameras that are arguable competitive, but ultimately not direct competitors to Red. But now we have the A7s3 nipping at the heels of the Dragon and Gemini sensors at all levels while surpassing them in low light and internal ND and rolling shutter performance. It does not have raw internal no as high megapixel count, but it is still Netflix approved. Red Gemini is still a better cinema camera, and outclasses it in the finer points of image quality, however, the game has changed, it is not up against 8bit H.264 anymore. It is no longer "a must" to shot on higher end cameras. And while the Komodo is a great action cam, and an interesting option for those that need affordable GS, it is not the defacto game changer it might have been if launched a year or two ago. My concern going forward, if that we have never seen a CMOS sensor in all this time that can go above 15 stops usable DR without DGO, which could imply that CMOS has a glass ceiling for non DGO cameras. A ceiling that Red has hit, and lower end cameras have now met. Considering the sensor has been Red's competitive edge this entire time, are they going to blow us out of the water with a surprise CMOS DGO sensor, or are they tapping into organic sensor tech or something else we aren't even thinking of? )

 

[combatentropy]

Will have to see what they do with the rumoured "R1"

Whoa, hold up. That thing is also rumored to have global shutter (Canon Rumors). Normally I don't like rumor threads, but next year could be interesting

 

[electricjib]

I'm not here to debate it because I think everyone has a good opinion based on what they need less than specific fact. Which is the way it should be since you have to pick a tool that works for you within your means.

I will however say ya'll should get your hands on the Komodo. I just used one for a week and was so thrilled with it on so many levels from image quality, global shutter benefits and overall usability and size that our team at a pretty sizable company is looking to replace a Helium for two Komodo's.

I've used an A7S III and some of the other new camera's in this price range and the Komodo's smokes all of them in real world use. And it's not even that close.

If anyone would like a file to play with shoot me a message.

 

[Guest]

Whoa, hold up. That thing is also rumored to have global shutter (Canon Rumors). Normally I don't like rumor threads, but next year could be interesting

Heck yeah! I feel as if these are the days of good CMOS, as they things pretty dialed in an perhaps organic sensors coming down the pipes in the next great product cycle (maybe 4years from now).

So we should be seeing the best CMOS has to offer in the next few years. Or so I hope.

 

[Guest]

I'm not here to debate it because I think everyone has a good opinion based on what they need less than specific fact. Which is the way it should be since you have to pick a tool that works for you within your means.

I will however say ya'll should get your hands on the Komodo. I just used one for a week and was so thrilled with it on so many levels from image quality, global shutter benefits and overall usability and size that our team at a pretty sizable company is looking to replace a Helium for two Komodo's.

I've used an A7S III and some of the other new camera's in this price range and the Komodo's smokes all of them in real world use. And it's not even that close.

If anyone would like a file to play with shoot me a message.

Were you shooting raw with the A7s3? I am assuming redcode raw is a nicer negative than 10bit compressed h.265, but still curious to see the raw output from the A7s3 and Fx6.

 

[DM_R]

Were you shooting raw with the A7s3? I am assuming redcode raw is a nicer negative than 10bit compressed h.265, but still curious to see the raw output from the A7s3 and Fx6.

What do you expect from the raw of a7s3/FX6? Have you worked with the FX5 "raw"? Did it improved overall image quality a lot or made this camera cinema-ready?

 

[Guest]

What do you expect from the raw of a7s3/FX6? Have you worked with the FX5 "raw"? Did it improved overall image quality a lot or made this camera cinema-ready?

What is the FX5?

I have not shot raw with those Sony's, which is why I am curious. I would assume that shooting raw would help.

 

[sleekmedia]

Is there anywhere online to download A7siii or FX6 files the same way RED makes samples available for download? I would love to try and throw some grades on some A7siii and FX6 files and check out skin-tones in comparison to Komodo or Gemini (own both).

I used to own an FS5 and shoot raw over SDI exclusively to an Atomos Ninja Inferno for many years. Raw external recording produced 12-bit depth rather than 8-bit out of the FS5 so the image was greatly improved at 4k resolution and it also unlocked some HFR in 4k (120fps burst) that was not available in camera. That camera is what I built my business on and it treated me well despite it having various nuances. Honestly, the FX6 does seem to have come a long way in image quality, at least from the examples I have seen on Youtube as color science and DR look much improved over the original FS5/FS5ii. I used to wrestle with a lot of aliasing and moire from the FS5 and that is one area I feel RED does a really nice job with very nice OLPF's. The internal ND on the FS5 had lots of color cast so I would be interested to see how the FX6 compares as a good set of old fashioned ND's won't have this issue and color accuracy is important to some industry professionals. The FS5 would also definitely clip and blow-out highlights fairly easily but that is because you were always on that brutal edge of trying to expose +/- 1.5-2 stops over for S-log on a camera with average DR. I would be interested if the process of over-exposing log to get higher DR will remain the same with the FX6 or if they have somehow made the exposure process for Sony log more simple? It would be nice if Sony could implement a feature like the "stop-lights" and "goal-posts" that RED offers as exposure tools based on the RAW metadata to ensure you are feeding the sensor the right amount of light and not always going off of a histogram that is on the IRE scale. That is one thing with RED camera's I find greatly separates them from a lot of competition is their exposure tools really ensure that you get a fat digital negative.

For medium budget run-and-gun, no thrills corporate/commercial work, travel/doc, and weddings I do have to admit I see the FX6 really taking over. As much as I love Komodo and my RED cameras there are a lot of times clients won't even be able to tell the difference between "camera A" and "camera B" so using the camera that makes your day on the job easier and allows you to secure the shots you need (with or without a large crew) is the best option, not the one that gives you 15-25% better image quality but requires a heftier or more time-consuming workflow which may not even be fully appreciated by the client at the end of the day. I am a sucker for maximum image quality but for some its about making money and paying the bills at the end of the day too.