Kino vs Incandescent

[leaftors]

Lets say I have a 1k and full ctb it which would turn it to around a 350. If my calculations are correct, a 350 would throw out around 40 at 12ft. A 4x4 kino throws 32 at 12ft.

So would a 1k with full ctb still be stronger than a 2x4 an 4x4 with daylight bulbs?

Head 12ft. 15ft. 20ft. 25ft 30ft.
575 HMI 200 89 50 32 22
1200 HMI 600 267 150 96 67
650 Tweenie75 33 19 12 8
1000 Baby 150 67 38 24 17
2000 Junior500 222 125 80 56
5000 Senior356 200 128 89 50
10k Tenner 533 300 192 133 75
1k Mickey 150 67 38 24 17
2k Mighty 300 133 75 48 33
4x4 Kino 32 14 8 5 4
2x4 Kino 16 7 4 3 2

PS did a quick search for kino vs incandescent and didn't find anything.

What are the differences in terms of light quality? Is a kino soft enough to face directly at the talent without diffusion and still be as soft as an incandescent with diffusion?

 

[Paul Hudson]

A totally different kind of light. One is very soft and the other well...not.

 

[hennbot]

Depends on fixture and diffusion. You are really comparing two completely different instruments. If I'm keying with a kino, usually a Diva, I will either put some 250 or 216 on the outside of the doors to soften it up or push it through a frame, it's too
hard on most faces without it. If I'm using a fresnel I'll put it through a frame or use a Chimera. The big difference is that a fresnel can also be used to throw a nice tight beam and create shape, can't do that with a Kino. They both have their strengths but if I could only buy one I'd get a fresnel with a Chimera and start saving for a Kino Flo.

 

[slondon]

Lets say I have a 1k and full ctb it which would turn it to around a 350. If my calculations are correct, a 350 would throw out around 40 at 12ft. A 4x4 kino throws 32 at 12ft.

Head 12ft. 15ft. 20ft. 25ft 30ft.
1000 Baby 150 67 38 24 17

With full CTB you lose about two stops, so, (without checking your numbers,) 150 FC would become about 1/4 of that, or yeah, about 40. It's a terrible waste to use full CTB because tungsten light is so weak in blue that 85% of the light must be filtered out by the gel.

What are the differences in terms of light quality? Is a kino soft enough to face directly at the talent without diffusion and still be as soft as an incandescent with diffusion?

Yes, a plain vanilla 4 tube Kino Flo is soft enough and the illumination smooth enough to use without diffusion although placing some diffusion on the fixture or working it through a frame skinned with some is common. Opal and half white are plenty.

Remember, what makes light soft is the apparent or relative size of the source (the last surface the light came from) compared to the subject. So you can mimic the natural softness of a Kino Flo, with its large surface area, with a tungsten head in a softbox or by bouncing it off something white or shooting it through a frame skinned with diffusion gel.

Fresnels can do soft and hard but, as a practical matter, Kinos can only do soft, so apparently, a tungsten fresnel is more versatile. The problem is it is a power hog and hot and takes up more space than a Kino Flo when you make it soft. You need both.

I'm a small-time lighting guy and among many other fixtures, I have four Kino Flos and more tungsten fresnels than I have a count for. If you really truly could only have one, let me go counter to the conventional wisdom and say you'd be happier with a fluorescent for run-of-the-mill low-budget indie production, which is most commonly dialog in a small room, in my not so humble opinion. I could explain why I think that but it would take more writing than I have time for at the moment. But, you need both.

Many people here won't agree with that, and that's perfectly cool if it kicks off a discussion.

Oh, and you don't need to buy the brand name. Search the site for budget alternatives.

 

[Michael Carter]

I'd say, if you're trying to build up a kit, get as much daylight as you can - beyond the efficiency (amps/heat) there's also the fact that many modern sensors look far better at their daylight settings. Tungsten FILM is beautiful - a daylight-tuned sensor beefing up the blue channel can look muddy and noisy.

Kinos (and the knockoffs which are affordable and very good lights - such as the Cool Lights units) are soft, but are often "hard enough" with flags, etc. How many times do you point a fresnel right at someone? Not saying you never need one and I love the look.

I think the Cool Lights CDM fresnels are game-changers. About $450 or so for a 650-watt equivalent daylight source. The only negative is the cold-strike issue, which you adjust to pretty quickly.

The Cool Lights 150 ballast and bulb is about $330, and you could convert any sized fresnel to use that setup; and since the ballast is external, you could use it in Chinas, rigs, whatever.

Sticking a large-wattage spiral flo in any standard (or mogul with adapter) open face fixture gives you decently hard light - many of these bulbs DO need some minus green, maybe 1.8 or 1/4, regardless of specs. And there's all sorts of fixtures that would work.

I just did some tests and reviewed Alzo's bulb and ballast combo at this link - under $200 for an edison-base bulb that kicks out about 600-800 tunsgten equivalent and really renders colors well. I've converted a 6" fresnel for it, I use it in a mogul-base softbox and open face light, I'm currently converting an old Novatron flash head for it (since I have speed rings for all my photoflex gear).

I still bring 300, 500, 750 and 1k tungstens to shoots, fresnels and open faced (with a variety of globes) - with half CTB they're often just-right for warm light, and going 3/4 or full with a 750 or 1k often gives me some daylight that I won't have til I get even more HID or an HMI. But I go for the daylight gear first - nice not blowing fuses. Can't dim 'em, but I often just wrap flos in white or black mesh for some control.

 

[Paul Hudson]

I'd say, if you're trying to build up a kit, get as much daylight as you can - beyond the efficiency (amps/heat) there's also the fact that many modern sensors look far better at their daylight settings. Tungsten FILM is beautiful - a daylight-tuned sensor beefing up the blue channel can look muddy and noisy.

Very true. I find myself rarely using tungesten anymore. I light with HMI and Kino's 95% of the time.

 

[Michael Carter]

I learned my lighting chops shooting stills in the film days... I have ONE roll of 320T in the freezer. Amazing film. Even pushed three stops. ESPECIALLY pushed three stops!