Kino Vs. Cool Lights
- Thread starter Abaddon
- Start date
Kelly Olsen
Well-known member
If you are happy spending money on Kinos or whatever you have, then great, we are all very happy for you. If you have specific points as to why what you are using is better than Richard's product, then make your case in a reasoned tone and we will all be interested.
I've not bought anything from Richard, but calling him a troll is off base, way off base. Besides being a little rude, it is just wrong.
Anybody who has been monitoring the lighting thread knows that Richard has been here sharing ideas and giving information on a regular basis for a long time. This is to be encouraged, not discouraged.
Last edited:
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
OK, lets just ignore the negative posters that don't have anything real of substance to contribute. Muroshi, I left you a PM as requested.
Last edited:
Shawn Philip Nelson
Veteran
It's true, RedUser has been down. It's cold and dark outside, I just rock myself in a corner telling myself it will be over soon...
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
Right... withdrawal. You mentioned something about lighting being different with a RED. Can you put that into words yet? And have you tried discharge lighting like flo's or your Alzo metal halide with it yet? Is the effect the same as with your other camera? Or different?
Shawn Philip Nelson
Veteran
It's hard to figure out. It's the way Red looks at the light. There have been several distinct times where the lighting actually looked better on Red than it did in real life to the eye, and that blew me away. Light feels more tangible, more radient, smoother.
Anyhow, I haven't done those tests because all this week I am Red-less. On Monday I mailed #27 back to them for some factory tune-ups (better PL mount, them setting critical backfocus, etc.). But once I get it back, i intend to test out such lighting.
Anyhow, I haven't done those tests because all this week I am Red-less. On Monday I mailed #27 back to them for some factory tune-ups (better PL mount, them setting critical backfocus, etc.). But once I get it back, i intend to test out such lighting.
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
Yeah, of course, I'm really curious to hear how the discharge lighting will do. Particularly when you consider its a digital film replacement camera and I'd love to know more about how it behaves like film or video does with discharge. I would guess its in the digital video model of behavior but we'll see.
Post back when you know more!
Post back when you know more!
Coollights
1x CL-455PMD Cool Lights Portable Dimming 4x55watt Softlight à 585$
1x Eggcrate à 29$
1x Shipping to my country à 295$
1x Stand Adapter à 29$
Total costs: 938$ without case, without lamp case and without gel holder
Kino Flo Diva Light 400
1x Diva Lite 400 à 1'039.95$
Barndoors, Mount, Eggcrate, solid Travel case, lamp case, gel frame and diffuser included
1x lamps 86$
Kino Flo Off-Set Adapter à 39.95$
1x Shipping à 153.05$ (UPS Worldwide Saver)
as stated on bhphotovideo.com
Total costs: 1'318.95
I would thank Richard, if he could state costs of his cases to my comparison.
1x CL-455PMD Cool Lights Portable Dimming 4x55watt Softlight à 585$
1x Eggcrate à 29$
1x Shipping to my country à 295$
1x Stand Adapter à 29$
Total costs: 938$ without case, without lamp case and without gel holder
Kino Flo Diva Light 400
1x Diva Lite 400 à 1'039.95$
Barndoors, Mount, Eggcrate, solid Travel case, lamp case, gel frame and diffuser included
1x lamps 86$
Kino Flo Off-Set Adapter à 39.95$
1x Shipping à 153.05$ (UPS Worldwide Saver)
as stated on bhphotovideo.com
Total costs: 1'318.95
I would thank Richard, if he could state costs of his cases to my comparison.
Spartacus
Veteran
I never considered ordering lights from B&H because I thought they wouldn´t offer 220V fixtures,
so I always compared to European Kino prices...
I believe the cases from Richard were in the 150-200$ range, not sure though.
Also, I believe the CoolLights have universal ballasts, the Divas only operate in one area (but thats probably more interessting for travelling Americans, cause the rest of the world seems to use 220-230V...).
What I am a bit surprised is the extra costs for the eggrate, Richard always said he would offer complete fixtures without uping the final price through accessories like other companys would do.
But hey, it´s 29$, a soft eggrate for the biggest Rifa Light is around 270€!!!
If shipping from the states is half the price of shipping from China, maybe European customers should also order from CoolLights in the US...?
This together with the non-dimming solution (if you can live without it...) should save you another 300$ compared to the Diva...:thumbsup:
Yeah, I dimming would be a nice feature, but after comparing the price for the non-dimming version the markup looks a bit big to me.
And Richards fixtures are universal. But that's not an issue for my purposes. I would recommend him that he either ships them from America also or allows some deductions for European orders.
And Richards fixtures are universal. But that's not an issue for my purposes. I would recommend him that he either ships them from America also or allows some deductions for European orders.
Spartacus
Veteran
I just re-read your previous post, of course when you add the extra costs of a case the difference to a Diva becomes smaller again.
Maybe CoolLights strongest point will be the 2x55 and 6x55 fixtures, I suppose the price gap to the Kino fixtures will be bigger here.
And don´t forget CoolLoghts HMI line - VERY interessting price/value ratio...
Maybe CoolLights strongest point will be the 2x55 and 6x55 fixtures, I suppose the price gap to the Kino fixtures will be bigger here.
And don´t forget CoolLoghts HMI line - VERY interessting price/value ratio...
Yes, the gap becomes very small.
The Diva lite 400 is the biggest from Kino flo of its kind.
2x55 is not very interesting from what I think, you always can turn 2 lights down with the 4x55. Maybe he also could put a run and go package together, like most manufacturers do. Should bring Richard more turnover and better working hour rates.
The Diva lite 400 is the biggest from Kino flo of its kind.
2x55 is not very interesting from what I think, you always can turn 2 lights down with the 4x55. Maybe he also could put a run and go package together, like most manufacturers do. Should bring Richard more turnover and better working hour rates.
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
The case to get for this is the $135 CL-CCL1 which is 75cm x 49cm x 28cm and can fit a variety of configrations like 2 CL-255's, 2 stands, eggcrates, bulb cases, etc. or 1 CL-455 1 CL-255, bulb cases, 2 stands, eggcrates, bulb cases, etc. or 1 CL-655, bulb case, stand, eggcrates, etc. It's a pretty versatile case and you can't compare it to anything kino offers which is a single case for a single light. Yes, I'm sure we'll have some kit offerings I just haven't had time to think them all out yet. While it may be true I'm charging $29 for an eggcrate or a stand adapter, I'm not charging $300 for a Universal Voltage ballast nor do I charge for 1 set of bulbs with the fixture... Let's put all this into perspective. You can always find something that someone isn't giving you if you look hard enough...
Macville
Well-known member
Actually, if you are going to compare the two, then you need to pick the correct kinoflo. The one you picked is 220 only, but Coollight's Flo is 110-220. The package from Kinoflo that matches that costs $1,269.95. So to get the same type light, it would cost $1,548.95. Plus, is the $295 shipping from the US or China? I am guessing that it's from China...so if you waited to order from the US, it should be about the same as B&H's shipping (or actually less since the kino cases weight a decent amout.)
Something else to consider is that Richard has fixed many of the flaws which plague the kio's. Sure, there is some risk involved, but considering how open Richard is, and knowing his past products have been high quality, I think it's easily worth the risk.
Matthew
Spartacus
Veteran
No setup will fit everybodys needs.
CoolLights´price advantage can range from aprox. 20% to 70%.
When buying two or three lights, this ads up to a good amount of money.
As I said in another post "Fluos ain´t rocket science."
That doesn´t mean, it´s easy to manufacture them and start a business selling them.
It simply means, that if you do it properly, you can build sth that´s up to or even surpases existing brands.
And so far Richard has given enough insight that he did just so.
Richard,
can Europeans order from your US outlet?
CoolLights´price advantage can range from aprox. 20% to 70%.
When buying two or three lights, this ads up to a good amount of money.
As I said in another post "Fluos ain´t rocket science."
That doesn´t mean, it´s easy to manufacture them and start a business selling them.
It simply means, that if you do it properly, you can build sth that´s up to or even surpases existing brands.
And so far Richard has given enough insight that he did just so.
Richard,
can Europeans order from your US outlet?
Macville
Well-known member
Just because the feature isn't important to you, doesn't mean that there's a difference. You are trying to compare apples to oranges, but in this case (considering features) you have to consider apples to apples. Just because you don't use a feature, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Sure you can buy the only 240 version, but the Flo from Coollights is equal to the 120-240 version of the Kino.
I would suggest you go ahead and buy the Kinos. It doesn't sound like you'd be happy with the cheaper lights no matter what. Me, I am going to buy the cheaper (and I feel better made) lights and enjoy making beautiful images.
Matthew
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
Muroshi,
I wish you well on your purchase, whatever it is, but you shouldn't spend so much time agonizing over it. Don't berate manufacturers for what they don't have. And don't take this thread in a adversarial direction like you did in the beginning. You seem to bounce between nice cop and bad cop trying to attract others to this thread who can chime in on some sort of MOB type thing. Is that working well for you?
Either pick products for what they do have and that a majority of the features are what you need or go with another solution. I'm moving at the speed I can with the budget I've got. On Price: We do have to make some money or we won't stay in business so the price is what it is. It was determined scientifically based on all our costs both direct and indirect. Someone commented that they think I don't raise prices very often--they're right. I run a tight ship.
Anyway, that's how it works when you're shopping--you pick the one that you vibrate with the best but you don't try to stir up a bunch of trouble for those solutions you can't use. They have their own market and following. Also, if you're so worried about the new product and potential bugs, go with the older product. It seems like a simple choice to me if you don't like taking risks.
Why not spend some time talking about what Kino doesn't have instead of whatever it is that I'm not doing that you wish I did? Certain features you wish you had? Send me an email about what I don't have. We've listened a lot. I get emails from customers and potential customers all the time. We've even designed things on this board by public vote. Where were you during that? But the threads didn't get adversarial and design doesn't work well when it is adversarial. We either play nice and keep it positive or you can be someone else's customer and thats okay with me. Our customers are reasonable and they get reasonable back.
On, taking some information I give you (like a shipping quote) then making all that public: Your shipping quote is just that--yours. Its not someone elses. What is the interest of showing everyone what a Cool Lights configuration to you is? Normally people work all that out with me in private emails and not on a public board. You have to wonder what someone's agenda is when they behave like you are. Anyone that's publishing private communications between me and them won't get any more private communications. That's just normal ettiquette and consideration.
By the way, on the list of what Kino doesn't have: They don't have a hard plastic shell and they don't have a tough inner skeleton. They don't have aluminum edge protection--just plastic. The ballast is in an obtrusive hump on the back. Their carrying case can only hold one fixture. They don't have a cool new lollipop that stays in place without slipping so much. Don't care about any of this? Thats okay, buy the one that suits you.
THIS IS NOT A CHEAP KNOCKOFF. This is a reasonably-priced alternative where alternatives don't exist in the LOCATION FIXTURE area. There is a 30% savings on ONE configuration that you want to dwell on but that doesn't take into consideration the hundreds that have bought a metal fixture this year and were very content with that purchase--as I showed earlier in this thread. That savings is significant. Nor does it take into consideration the savings on other versions which you may not be interested in but others are. So every time you point out what we don't have for you, I'll point out what we have for hundreds of others. That could get a bit tiring right? If you think you can do it better than me, then start a business and offer a more reasonably priced solution than I am.
Reliability: Where are the horror stories on this board? People love to ***** when something doesn't work but don't talk about it so often when it does work right. You'd see at least one horror story on here and my detractors (about 3 or 4 here that take a little shot at me every now and then) would be pointing to that rather than taking pot shots at me, calling names and focusing on generalizations like "Well its made in China, how good can it be?". (Don't you love it when someone says "Well I don't have anything against Richard and wish him well but I've really had bad experiences with Chinese made stuff"--right--this is why Walmart, the king of Chinese import, is going out of business tomorrow). We handle customer service correctly and in the places it should be handled, that's why you don't see problems posted here.
I think its pretty tremendous what this little 2 person company has been able to do in so little time. If you don't, then go with Kino or buy a Lowel Caselite--I saw you asking about that over at REDUser. A $1050 non-dimmable location fixture--if you think that's a great deal then go for it. But don't rail at us for what we don't have... Thanks in advance for your help on keeping it positive here in the lighting forum.
I wish you well on your purchase, whatever it is, but you shouldn't spend so much time agonizing over it. Don't berate manufacturers for what they don't have. And don't take this thread in a adversarial direction like you did in the beginning. You seem to bounce between nice cop and bad cop trying to attract others to this thread who can chime in on some sort of MOB type thing. Is that working well for you?
Either pick products for what they do have and that a majority of the features are what you need or go with another solution. I'm moving at the speed I can with the budget I've got. On Price: We do have to make some money or we won't stay in business so the price is what it is. It was determined scientifically based on all our costs both direct and indirect. Someone commented that they think I don't raise prices very often--they're right. I run a tight ship.
Anyway, that's how it works when you're shopping--you pick the one that you vibrate with the best but you don't try to stir up a bunch of trouble for those solutions you can't use. They have their own market and following. Also, if you're so worried about the new product and potential bugs, go with the older product. It seems like a simple choice to me if you don't like taking risks.
Why not spend some time talking about what Kino doesn't have instead of whatever it is that I'm not doing that you wish I did? Certain features you wish you had? Send me an email about what I don't have. We've listened a lot. I get emails from customers and potential customers all the time. We've even designed things on this board by public vote. Where were you during that? But the threads didn't get adversarial and design doesn't work well when it is adversarial. We either play nice and keep it positive or you can be someone else's customer and thats okay with me. Our customers are reasonable and they get reasonable back.
On, taking some information I give you (like a shipping quote) then making all that public: Your shipping quote is just that--yours. Its not someone elses. What is the interest of showing everyone what a Cool Lights configuration to you is? Normally people work all that out with me in private emails and not on a public board. You have to wonder what someone's agenda is when they behave like you are. Anyone that's publishing private communications between me and them won't get any more private communications. That's just normal ettiquette and consideration.
By the way, on the list of what Kino doesn't have: They don't have a hard plastic shell and they don't have a tough inner skeleton. They don't have aluminum edge protection--just plastic. The ballast is in an obtrusive hump on the back. Their carrying case can only hold one fixture. They don't have a cool new lollipop that stays in place without slipping so much. Don't care about any of this? Thats okay, buy the one that suits you.
THIS IS NOT A CHEAP KNOCKOFF. This is a reasonably-priced alternative where alternatives don't exist in the LOCATION FIXTURE area. There is a 30% savings on ONE configuration that you want to dwell on but that doesn't take into consideration the hundreds that have bought a metal fixture this year and were very content with that purchase--as I showed earlier in this thread. That savings is significant. Nor does it take into consideration the savings on other versions which you may not be interested in but others are. So every time you point out what we don't have for you, I'll point out what we have for hundreds of others. That could get a bit tiring right? If you think you can do it better than me, then start a business and offer a more reasonably priced solution than I am.
Reliability: Where are the horror stories on this board? People love to ***** when something doesn't work but don't talk about it so often when it does work right. You'd see at least one horror story on here and my detractors (about 3 or 4 here that take a little shot at me every now and then) would be pointing to that rather than taking pot shots at me, calling names and focusing on generalizations like "Well its made in China, how good can it be?". (Don't you love it when someone says "Well I don't have anything against Richard and wish him well but I've really had bad experiences with Chinese made stuff"--right--this is why Walmart, the king of Chinese import, is going out of business tomorrow). We handle customer service correctly and in the places it should be handled, that's why you don't see problems posted here.
I think its pretty tremendous what this little 2 person company has been able to do in so little time. If you don't, then go with Kino or buy a Lowel Caselite--I saw you asking about that over at REDUser. A $1050 non-dimmable location fixture--if you think that's a great deal then go for it. But don't rail at us for what we don't have... Thanks in advance for your help on keeping it positive here in the lighting forum.
