Kino brand 55w biax vs... everything else.

Michael Carter

Michael Carter

Veteran
I have 5 different biax units - duals and quads - from 3 different manufacturers (none Kino). I've found that every one really has a yellowish cast. The closest I can get to a neutral gray card is 1/4 CTB with 1/8 minus green. That gets me pretty acceptable 5200k.

Are Kino-branded tubes worth it? What kind of gels are people using with biax kinos? Just some minus green? Nothing?
 
Michael Carter said:
Are Kino-branded tubes worth it? What kind of gels are people using with biax kinos? Just some minus green? Nothing?
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Yes they are worth it. There are several good cinema bulbs out there, but the Kino version is readily available. That said, there is interaction with the balast. If the ballast can't properly drive the bulb, you can get some color issues.

What the color corrected bulbs do, in general, is trade output for color correctness. Cheap bulbs get much of their lumenocity from the green spike. If you hammer that down, you loose lumens overall. The KinoFlo ballasts, as I understand it, compensate a little by somewhat "overdriving" the tubes. And the bulbs are color balanced for this. So a Kino bulb with a Kino ballast doesn't need any gels at all. A Kino tube with a non-Kino ballast may need small amount of gel, typically a 1/8 or 1/4 minus green. The only way to know, of course, is to try it an see.
 
I put Kino tubed in my flolights and stopped using the magenta gel. They are way better than the osrams that comes with the flolights.
I recently did an interview where I semi augmented daylight from the windows in the shot. Checked my scopes when I got home. I barely had to move the angle of the threeway to get it line up at skin tone.

Only issue I noticed is that the KinoFlo tubes are slight wider, so I couldnt reattach the safety latches.
 
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I guess people seem to have had different results putting Kino tubes in Flo lights.
My results.:
The Kino bulbs in the Flolight did not put out as much light as they did in the Diva light. I thought they looked anemic. This confirms what Bruce said about the Diva having ballasts that overdrive the bulbs.

That said however I have found that simply putting a 1/8 Magenta on my Osram bulbs seems to work fine. I'm pretty careful about testing color and have been very happy that way. They didn't read perfectly on an older Minolta color meter, but on every camera I've tried they have been fine under presets. ( i don't trust color meters for LED's or Fluorescents anyway)
Moreover I have found perks to sticking with Osram bulbs.
1 - The daylight bulbs are considerably brighter than the Kino bulbs in a Diva - at least a half stop and as I recall it more like 2/3.
2 - The Osram bulbs in a Flolight maintained their color much better while dimming whereas the Kino bulbs in a Diva go quite magenta.
3 - Quite often I find myself using the Flolights in a flourescent environment where the slight green spike actually makes a better match and I don't use the magenta.
4 - The Diva's aren't any great shakes for color anyway. They are a poor match for standard Kinos and don't keep color while dimming.

If i were a gaffer I suppose I would have to provide the most color perfect fluorescents and some newer lights are quite good, but you pay for it. As a shooter who doesn't want to break the bank on lights I've been happy with Flolight & Osram bulb match.

BTW - As i understand (could b wrong) it the main difference between Kino bulbs and the Osram is that the flitering is basically taking place inside the bulb rather than by adding gel - hence the lower output. I just carry a roll of precut gel for each instrument w - 1/8. 1/4 & 1/2 Plus & Minus green + the same sizes in CTB & CTO + some ND so i don't have to dim too far.
 
May not be worth it for me in that case... the odd thing I'm seeing is the yellow shift, needing magenta-purple to correct (thus a light CTB plus minus green). I get very even RGB grays that way.

& it's getting widely known that color meters aren't that handy for modern daylight stuff, the lack of a full spectrum seems to throw them off. I've gotten really serious about finding the specific gels all my daylight stuff needs. It's pretty quick to do. Shoot stills or footage of grayscale cards with the profile you use most, and eyedropper the grays. Photoshop's photo filters actually function fairly close to gels, so you can get a good guess pretty quickly, gel the light and shoot again, and keep looking for grays with even RGB values - within a couple points of each other. This at least gives me a neutral point for gelling, and you can dial in several fixtures in a half hour. I mark the gel values on the fixture or globe boxes.

I also shoot Raw stills and white balance to each light. In the Raw converter, it's crystal clear what color temp (CTB vs. CTO) - AND the tint shift (green/magenta) the camera chose. I can pretty much see how much magenta a fixture needs right there, then zero it all out to daylight and eyedropper the grays.

What's been interesting for me is the 400 watt Mogul HID stuff - grow & aquarium market. I have a 6500k that is dead-nuts-white with 1/2 CTO. Another listed as 5500k, needs CTB and minus green. With a modified space light or those Smith-Victor softboxes (or get pricey with Photoflex Starlights), they're sort of baby HMIs for $120 or so. I've been using them for commercial shoots and been really extremely happy. DIY spacelight that puts out about 1200 tunsgten equivalent:

spacelight.jpg
 
The best one I've found was from an ebay seller. "Plusrite" brand, model # on the box is MH400/HOR/MOG. Under 30 bucks. Google doesn't turn it up but searching ebay for "400 watt mogul" should find one.

The ballast I use is about $140 new, found one used for $80. Lumatek, purple color, 4 positions - 250, 250SL, 400, 400SL. The "SL" means "Super Lumens" which boosts output (and color temp). the 250 settings aren't dimmers, they're for 250 watt lamps. No fan, I've run it all day long for gigs. Rated at 6500k and it is exactly that.

Found an eBay seller with a new kit, 400 HID bulb, 400 sodium bulb, and ballast for $120. That ballast has a fan, and the bulb needs 3/4 CTB (yes, B) and 1/8 minus green. rated at 5200k but it ain't. Haven't tried this but I'd imagine with 1/4 CTO and the minus green it would be a good tungsten colored source. Ballast/bulbs are interchangeable though, the 400 mogul's a pretty standard aquarium/grow setup. Mogul HIDs are UV shielded, too.

I lucked out with the first bulb - I need to test some more as there's more 5200k rated globes every month, but I want to make sure they're returnable. I'd like to have two large softboxes running the moguls for interviews, and maybe 1 of the 16" square boxes without the front as a somewhat directional lamp for bounce. The 400's are a really nice combo with the Alzo bulb/ballast and lights, to the point I'm only using my flos for green screen lights, which they kinda rock at. If I can find a good supply of the 6500k bulbs, I'll gladly dye the softbox fronts to 1/2 CTO.

Came across some single-ended G9 based 400 HIDs which would be a great fit in a flexipar which takes up to 575, dunno if those ballasts would drive them. Not enough hours in the day (or $$ in the testing budget!)
 
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