Kineraw Mini S35

Exactly: I'm not saying there are no Chinese knockoffs. I'm saying this camera seems not to be stealing any IP. If Canon made it, RED would have nothing against them; they could complain "it looks somewhat like ours", but they are different enough that they wouldn't even coinsider going to court for that. But this time is not Canon, it's a Chinese company making the camera. And that changes nothing: it's still not a knockoff, no matter what other Chinese firms do.

Using this kind of stereotypes is WRONG.

I just googled "chinese knockoff" and got 5,910,000 results. Then I googled "rapist west hills california" and got 27,600,000 results. I believe this says NOTHING about you.
 
Samuel H said:
Exactly: I'm not saying there are no Chinese knockoffs. I'm saying this camera seems not to be stealing any IP. If Canon made it, RED would have nothing against them; they could complain "it looks somewhat like ours", but they are different enough that they wouldn't even coinsider going to court for that. But this time is not Canon, it's a Chinese company making the camera. And that changes nothing: it's still not a knockoff, no matter what other Chinese firms do.

Using this kind of stereotypes is WRONG.


I just googled "chinese knockoff" and got 5,910,000 results. Then I googled "rapist west hills california" and got 27,600,000 results. I believe this says NOTHING about you.
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Just so that you can understand what IP is. And when there stop being entire industries in China that ripoff other people's IP, then people, not just me, will stop saying that it happens. Until then, it does happen on a large scale and denying that is does is putting your head in the sand. Perhaps someday you will create some cool design, product, etc, and someone will rip it off and you will get it. Perhaps...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

I googled:

"rapist West Hills, CA" and got 1,800,000. If you are going to do this, do it right.

"rapist Madrid Spain" and got 5,910,000.

The fact that YOU went there says a lot about you.
 
noirist said:
Samual isn't denying that some Chinese companies have copied some products made by other companies. He's saying that you can't use that stereotype to accuse specific Chinese companies of copying specific products of other companies. You need evidence. So what EXACTLY do you think KineRaw has copied from other companies, and what's your evidence that they copied it?
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Read the rest of the thread and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

If you still don't get it then I can't really explain it any better. Chinese companies that do this are not kids using limewire or pirating for personal purposes. What they are doing is not harmless and effects the bottom line of companies that put a lot of time and effort into creating something. If you want to be in a creative industry and not have respect for IP, or even understand what it is, you should educate yourself. IP is 99% of what we do and what pays our bills.
It's being done in China on a massive scale, and since the country is run the way it is, the government there is fine with the companies that do it. They do not enforce international patent law. Name a cool product, and there is a knock off, and there is nothing the inventor can do to stop it from happening in China. That is not a stereotype, it's how business is being done at the moment. Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't want to hear it.
 
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Again, I never said there is no rampant IP theft in China. I'm saying this particular firm seems to have stolen no IP whatsoever. Using that Chinese stereotype to attack them is RACIST. Samuel out.
 
visugeek said:
Not every product, but this particular camera? Sorry Charlie, it's a Red knockoff. They have entire city knockoffs. They are really good at it, and it's almost comical. You should watch the 60 Minutes on their Paris.

Or check this out:

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1998580,00.html

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but when it's your product or Intellectual Property and you aren't paid for it, you might feel differently.

If you don't think it happens then what is wrong with your head is it's buried somewhere...either in the sand or someplace else where light doesn't shine.
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This is another line of cameras made with open market components and shooting open standard licensable codecs. There is nothing Red about Kineraw. You could just as well say Black Magic ripped off Red.
 
visugeek said:
Not every product, but this particular camera? Sorry Charlie, it's a Red knockoff. They have entire city knockoffs.
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Ha! How is this a Red Knock off? Do Red own the IP of a black box with lens? Yes, there are lots of copies from China but this is not one of them.

Who owns the IP of the DSLR? Canon and Nikons all look the same these days with the same features. Who is stealing from who here ?

The car you drive, I bet it has 4 wheels, a combustion engine, a steering wheel, two seats in the front and a bench seat in the rear, a stereo in the centre console, a glove box etc. Why are they all allowed to have the same features and designs? Isn't this wrong? Surely someone is stealing here?

And the Chinese knock off entire cities? Do you mean like they do in Vegas with the monuments from around the world? The Sphinx, the Eiffel Tower, the gondolas...........

This is not in Paris: http://www.flickr.com/photos/timlam18/2999639378/in/pool-626546@N22

This is not in Italy: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marionzetta/2954317066/in/pool-626546@N22

Tell me then, how could they have designed this camera differently so you wouldn't think its a knock off?
A square lens maybe? Paint is bright Pink? Use the brains of 20 virgins instead of SSD's?
 
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Samuel H said:
Again, I never said there is no rampant IP theft in China. I'm saying this particular firm seems to have stolen no IP whatsoever. Using that Chinese stereotype to attack them is RACIST. Samuel out.
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So you agree that there is rampant IP theft in China, but you disagree that this is a Red knockoff and saying that it's a Red knockoff is racist, even though you agree that there is rampant IP theft in China.

You sir make absolutely no sense. Read the first few pages of the thread. My initial post was agreeing with the previous comments that others have made about this being a Red knockoff, because it is.

You indeed are trolling for the sake of trolling.
 
visugeek said:
So you agree that there is rampant IP theft in China, but you disagree that this is a Red knockoff and saying that it's a Red knockoff is racist, even though you agree that there is rampant IP theft in China.

You sir make absolutely no sense. Read the first few pages of the thread. My initial post was agreeing with the previous comments that others have made about this being a Red knockoff, because it is.

You indeed are trolling for the sake of trolling.
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You ignored my post and questions, shame.

Red's design of the camera is based on function. It's not a design art piece by any stretch of the imagination. It's a utilitarian design designed to do a job. With this in mind, here is what the wiki page you often link to says about IP when concerned with design:
"Main article: Industrial design rights
An industrial design right protects the visual design of objects that are not purely utilitarian. An industrial design consists of the creation of a shape, configuration or composition of pattern or color, or combination of pattern and color in three dimensional form containing aesthetic value. An industrial design can be a two- or three-dimensional pattern used to produce a product, industrial commodity or handicraft."

While the BMCC could be considered as having an element of industrial design that is not purely utilitarian (its definately form over function), I don't think you could say the same about any of Reds cameras. Not only that, other than both the Red and KineRaw being black boxes with a round lens mount, I don't think they even look the same.

Again, look at Panasonic, Sony, Ikegami and Hitachi's broadcast cameras. They all look exactly the same. Is this an issue? No, because they are utilitarian designs not really creative ones.

Visugeek, Just out of interest (as you were so disgusted by the Chines knocking off 'cities'), what is your view on the Vegas monument knock offs I gave example to?
 
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Saying "IP theft is rampant in China" is stating a true fact. Adding that "therefore this firm must be doing it too" is racist. It's the generalization that is wrong. But really, I don't want to go on with this. Bye.
 
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. The design, form factor, functionality, modularity, etc is all a knock off of Red. It's a Red Duck. If I'm ignoring anyones posts it's because the "no it isn't, if you say that you're a racist" bullshit really isn't worth replying to at this point. You kids need to move out of your mom's basements and get girlfriends.
 
I found this video from IBC 2013. It is a European Kinifinity distributor presenting the Mini for the News Shooter/Teradek video blog. It is worth a look.


The video does not inspire confidence in the camera as far as I am concerned.
 
visugeek said:
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. The design, form factor, functionality, modularity, etc is all a knock off of Red. It's a Red Duck. If I'm ignoring anyones posts it's because the "no it isn't, if you say that you're a racist" bulls*%t really isn't worth replying to at this point. You kids need to move out of your mom's basements and get girlfriends.
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Show me where I said your a racist? Your ignoring my point because you know I have one. You were kicking and screaming that the Chinese were even copying cities as a case for your cause and I asked how it was different to the Americans copying world monuments in Vegas. You also didn't state how the camera could be designed to not be seen as a knock of or explain why it's OK for DSLRs to all look the same.

i don't know what your agenda is here but other than saying "it's a copy, its a copy" you have provided no specific proof and have labeled any product coming out of china as a knock off.
 
visugeek said:
If I'm ignoring anyones posts it's because the "no it isn't, if you say that you're a racist" bulls*%t really isn't worth replying to at this point.
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Please please, sir don't ignore me. Your word means the world to me. You have proven yourself to be credible and authoritative on the subject, and I'm sure on any subject you care to speak on.
 
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