Key & Peele - Behind the Scenes with DP Charles Papert

Yeah, just saw that, it's great news. Not viewable outside the US though as far as I know. But if anyone wants to post a sketch with questions, I'll do my best to answer. The early ones are now 5 years old so I may not be able to get too specific!
 
Charles I hope you check in - but I was wondering... You mentioned shooting 2 or even 3 scenes in a day! I feel like on some of my shoots I'm moving faster than anyone could ask, but usually can do 2-3 as well. The difference being my day might be 14 or 15 hours and it's smaller budget.

This might sound like a no-brainer, but are all your shots planned out including lighting and lenses and a shot list you stick to? I find so many things change (maybe a product of low budgets) that I can't do that and even if I did, it wouldn't be helpful. I'd love to know your planning work-flow and what if anything changes as you are in the middle of a production day. Also if you don't mind, things like # of grips and helpers that enable you to setup and shoot so fast - especially when you're going to entirely different locations!

One last thing - if you have AC's (which I'm assuing you do) how do you pick them? I feel like that would be the best way for me to experience a 'real' budget and get that crucial experience on a full-blown set. I look at the lights and scale of some of the things you have done and it's pretty incredible!
 
fatman said:
Charles I hope you check in - but I was wondering... You mentioned shooting 2 or even 3 scenes in a day! I feel like on some of my shoots I'm moving faster than anyone could ask, but usually can do 2-3 as well. The difference being my day might be 14 or 15 hours and it's smaller budget.

This might sound like a no-brainer, but are all your shots planned out including lighting and lenses and a shot list you stick to? I find so many things change (maybe a product of low budgets) that I can't do that and even if I did, it wouldn't be helpful. I'd love to know your planning work-flow and what if anything changes as you are in the middle of a production day.
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Every job is different. Some directors do all the shotlisting without me ahead of time, sometimes we sit and work on it together, other times we don't work off a shotlist at all. On the show I'm currently shooting, the director and I developed an instant shorthand and we talk through the shots after rehearsal and put it together on the spot. It's not rocket science if you keep it simple!

On Key & Peele, director Peter Atencio and I would squeeze in a long day of shotlisting for the 25 or so sketches we'd shoot in a block of 2 weeks. Some sketches consisted of just a master and two sides of coverage, so we wouldn't bother with those. Others required a lot of discussion and planning. For example, the following sketch was relative simple--the actors were arranged essentially in a triangle so it came down to how to best utilize the two cameras in the most efficient manner that would also work with my lighting scheme.

View attachment K&P 25 - Macedonian Restaurant.pdf

Here's a far more complicated one, where the sunline would travel across the street while we were shooting the sketch. I opted to shoot only in the shade, which meant I had to order the individual shots based on shooting towards shade, what i could cover with a 20x20 overhead on stands and a few other factors. I probably revised that thing five times. It was super complex to shoot, as the screen direction was constantly changing (one character was in a car that was moving forwards then backwards from a character on the sidewalk). That's 25 setups on the shotlist, and we had six hours to shoot (our first half of the day). I believe we only dropped two setups from that list.

View attachment K&P 54 Car Door.pdf

I'd also develop a list of specialty gear, camera settings and notes on camera and lighting that I'd refer to daily. As you can, see these were pretty rudimentary. I'd develop the basic lighting scheme with my gaffer and key grip during the tech scouts and we might address again before the day if there were questions on their end, otherwise I'd walk onto set and pretty much just shoot from the hip, as it were.

View attachment K&P Block S2 Block 1 notes.pdf


fatman said:
Also if you don't mind, things like # of grips and helpers that enable you to setup and shoot so fast - especially when you're going to entirely different locations!
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Looking at the call sheet for that day, I'm seeing essentially a 6&6, which is key, best boy and four company in both grip and electric (we also had two dolly grips). Which probably seems huge to most people here, but we often had several of them working ahead on the next set, running cable or rigging. Each of the two cameras had an operator and 1st and 2nd AC's, plus a DIT and utility.

fatman said:
One last thing - if you have AC's (which I'm assuing you do) how do you pick them? I feel like that would be the best way for me to experience a 'real' budget and get that crucial experience on a full-blown set. I look at the lights and scale of some of the things you have done and it's pretty incredible!
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I have a regular set of AC's who have been with me for a number of years now. My B camera 1st started with me as a 2nd on Key & Peele, did his time and I moved him up a couple of years ago. Both of the 1st's have many years of TV shows and features under their belts. They are really good and I rarely have to think about their focus work. Overall I probably have 5 alternates for each position in my group of regulars. Occasionally I have to work with new crew for one reason or another, and then hopefully get to expand my list! Most of what I shoot is union so that's a prerequisite for most jobs.
 
Mac Rest first/second setup.

How is the boom op working, is Bcam just getting 'stuff' or critical audio.

Tell us about wide-n-tight AB shooting and booms?

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Mac Rest first/second setup.

How is the boom op working, is Bcam just getting 'stuff' or critical audio.

Tell us about wide-n-tight AB shooting and booms?

S
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Took me a while to figure out "Mac Rest", Sam! And here is a link to the Macedonian Restaurant sketch in question: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x43qe3n

We generally try to avoid very wide shots on A cam with very tight ones on B for audio's sake, but it depends on the mixer and what they are able to give us. Some are more picky than others. And it depends on what a wide shot means. The usual definition is how much headroom you are giving them. A shot with a ton of headroom is the real killer for audio since they either can't boom or the boom has to be so high that a closeup on the other camera will have the wrong presence. And sometimes it's not necessarily about wide and tight--one situation that I always forget about is if you have a person sitting down with someone standing behind them and you want simultaneous closeups of both, that will be tough for sound because they can't bring the boom low enough for the seated person or it would blow into the other shot.

Sometimes we just have to plow ahead, maybe because we are losing light or we have to get a child actor off the clock etc. and the sound dept. just has to rely on the wireless mikes.

Before I forget--one fun thing we did for the end of the sketch, where the couple arrive at the Albanian restaurant; that is the same location as the Macedonian restaurant, footage flopped left to right, with a small re-dress and all of the signage printed in reverse.
 
Plenty loud! and not that wide (would he continue crashing about in the back over the dialogue - maybe that is Foley?) - and lovely touch with the reverse!

S
 
Charles! Thanks so much for this, it's all really great information. Now I'm trying to learn more about high-end lighting...like if budget was no issue, what would be chosen by top DoP's in certain situations and why and also when it's appropriate to use no lights at all.

Working on low budget stuff like the last film I shot - all I did continuously was use practical lights in the scenes as motivation for my lights and block the actors as much as possible so that the majority of the time the lighting would be 'interesting' - BUT, those lights are all small - no package truck. So afterwards I wondered how a big budget would alter those decisions. Like even in a Hollywood film, sometimes people shoot in small spaces right? so using huge sources (I'm guessing) wouldn't be possible or practical.

So I wonder with you, budget aside, do you ever use lower-end or smaller/cheaper stuff because it makes sense? In the macedonian restaurant piece I noticed the the characters sitting down are side lit, given the small space - was that a smaller light to bring up their close-ups? It looks like it could be motivated by a window we don't see or maybe from the large window we do see kind of wrapping around to their sides.

and a very tiny aside and I'm going to sound critical but I don't mean to be at all - isn't the coverage crossing the 180 degree line? I think it works because it's kind of 'inside' the circle of conversation, but I wonder if that was a discussion at any point...

I love all these posts you put together, so much info, I've learned a ton from them and the generosity is amazing, so if I didn't already say thanks - THANK YOU!
 
fatman said:
Charles! Thanks so much for this, it's all really great information. Now I'm trying to learn more about high-end lighting...like if budget was no issue, what would be chosen by top DoP's in certain situations and why and also when it's appropriate to use no lights at all.

Working on low budget stuff like the last film I shot - all I did continuously was use practical lights in the scenes as motivation for my lights and block the actors as much as possible so that the majority of the time the lighting would be 'interesting' - BUT, those lights are all small - no package truck. So afterwards I wondered how a big budget would alter those decisions. Like even in a Hollywood film, sometimes people shoot in small spaces right? so using huge sources (I'm guessing) wouldn't be possible or practical.

So I wonder with you, budget aside, do you ever use lower-end or smaller/cheaper stuff because it makes sense? In the macedonian restaurant piece I noticed the the characters sitting down are side lit, given the small space - was that a smaller light to bring up their close-ups? It looks like it could be motivated by a window we don't see or maybe from the large window we do see kind of wrapping around to their sides.
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As I recall (as this now goes back three or four years), the restaurant had windows that wrapped on at least two if not three sides (behind and to the sides of the master angle). We pushed a couple of sizeable HMI's (probably M90's) into the windows behind camera with large diffusion inbetween, allowing the right side to "win" (i.e. scrimmed down the left unit) to give a base look. It is my memory that this scheme worked for everything we shot as the ambient level from the sides provided enough wrap to fill in from the roughly 180 degree arc that we shot in. I'm not seeing evidence of smaller units in use from the inside, as the look is that of a large source and we didn't have room to work those inside. In fact--I now remember that this location had only one door for access, and it is the one seen in the beginning of the sketch, so I couldn't bring any distro in from outside and we were dubious about putting any serious draw on the house power (pretty sketchy joint)! I know we lifted up the kitchen area in the back a little which may have been a ceiling bounced 400w JoLeko. So this is a situation where the location forced a simplistic lighting scheme that I think works naturally.

fatman said:
and a very tiny aside and I'm going to sound critical but I don't mean to be at all - isn't the coverage crossing the 180 degree line? I think it works because it's kind of 'inside' the circle of conversation, but I wonder if that was a discussion at any point...
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Yes, it does indeed cross the line when the owner is teaching the woman how to pronounce their signature dish. The decision to shoot the customer's coverage from "inside the triangle" was deliberate and works other than that moment, because that was one that fell "outside the triangle". I am quite sure we discussed it when it came up but the usual thought is that by that point in the sketch you understand the geography of where everyone is in the space so it's not confusing. Whether or not it is jarring is up to the viewer to decide. The reality is that this was just one of several sketches we shot that day and I'm quite sure that we had to move on whether or not we wanted to add on a separate piece of coverage that would have fixed this (across the woman's right side to Keegan). Time...money...time....

My years as an operator "patrolling the line" have given me a pretty innate sense of eyelines but every now and then we'll find ourselves in a quagmire. Certain situations for me will set off alarm bells, such as when a director suggests split looks, I make sure to walk them through the required complementary coverage that will service those looks to make sure it is what they really want.
 
Charles, I've read you shot the first season with Sony PMW-F3 cameras, I'd love to hear your thinking behind why you chose them for the first season? (and also why you then stopped using them, of course you went then to Arri. Did you just change because the second season got a boost in budget so Alexas could be rented instead?)
 
Always happy to answer a Kiwi question! (NZ is my favorite place on earth).

The camera field in 2012 had far fewer choices than now (only 6 years but much has happened!) Starting from DSLR's on the pilot, we had enough budget to move up to something better but not enough to be able to afford the Alexa. I'd shot a project with the F3 and felt it was workable enough and in fact we got some pretty good looking stuff out of it. Yes, the budget improved a bit on season 2 but mostly the kludginess of outboard recorders was the deciding factor (after a disasterous start with KiPro Minis, our first season was recorded out to XDCAM disc recorders).
 
CharlesPapert said:
Always happy to answer a Kiwi question! (NZ is my favorite place on earth).
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Lucky me! Do you visit NZ often?

CharlesPapert said:
The camera field in 2012 had far fewer choices than now (only 6 years but much has happened!) Starting from DSLR's on the pilot, we had enough budget to move up to something better but not enough to be able to afford the Alexa. I'd shot a project with the F3 and felt it was workable enough and in fact we got some pretty good looking stuff out of it. Yes, the budget improved a bit on season 2 but mostly the kludginess of outboard recorders was the deciding factor (after a disasterous start with KiPro Minis, our first season was recorded out to XDCAM disc recorders).
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I guess the recorder options in 2012 was worse than it is now, when we're spoiled for choice with cheap and small external HD recorder/monitors. What was the disaster with KiPro Minis? (XDCAM Disc Recorders? Yikes!)

Am in the early days (three shooting days into it) of a feature film with 2x Sony PMW-F3, am half considering switching away from the F3 for the rest of it. Perhaps going with FS700, but it half seems like I gain with 4K and slow motion, however everything else for the FS700 is a step backwards compared to the F3!
 
IronFilm said:
Lucky me! Do you visit NZ often?
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Was last there way too many years ago...2004 maybe? Need to get back!


IronFilm said:
I guess the recorder options in 2012 was worse than it is now, when we're spoiled for choice with cheap and small external HD recorder/monitors. What was the disaster with KiPro Minis? (XDCAM Disc Recorders? Yikes!)
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it was MUCH worse! The KiPro Minis were not known for their reliability (the larger KiPro's were fine). They overheated on us day 1, admittedly a sweltering hot day, and we kept losing footage. It was a debacle. At the time, a number of TV shows were using the XDCAM decks because the discs were considered "hard media" which was a requirement of certain of the networks--recording to reusable media as we do now had not quite been univerally embraced. Funny as it sounds, there were a number of shows that were shooting on Alexas but the cameras were tethered to those XDCAM decks which lived on the DIT cart.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Was last there way too many years ago...2004 maybe? Need to get back!
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I'll offer my couch any time!

Not exactly tempting I know.

I'll shout a beer instead!

CharlesPapert said:
At the time, a number of TV shows were using the XDCAM decks because the discs were considered "hard media" which was a requirement of certain of the networks--recording to reusable media as we do now had not quite been univerally embraced. Funny as it sounds, there were a number of shows that were shooting on Alexas but the cameras were tethered to those XDCAM decks which lived on the DIT cart.
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Wowzers, that seems like madness, how times have changed!

Wonder what we'll look back at from 2018 and think the same of?
 
Well, it was only five years in the making...work slowed down enough this year that I could start finally making clip reels of shows I've done in last few years, and #1 had to be Key & Peele.

 
Marvellous Charles! I think the show still stands (and will do for a very long time) as a spectacular cinematographic achievement.

The range of styles you managed to execute, and sheer quality you were able to maintain across them, is honestly unlike anything I've seen before or since.

Bravo Sir.
 
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