Justify an F35 vs an FS7

S

steve phillipps

Veteran
You can find an F35 now for around the same price of an FS7. We all know that when introduced they were $200k or so, but things have moved on.
I'd love one but it's so hard to justify it next to the FS7. Typically one would do a pros and cons list, but I get the feeling that would be pretty pointless....but here goes!

FS7 pros and cons vs F35

Pros

Smaller
Lighter
Less power draw
Easy to adapt lens mount for more / cheaper lens options
Higher frame rates at HD (180fps vs 60fps)
Higher dynamic range (on paper at least)
4k up to 60fps
1 year warranty
Built in NDs
Better in low light


Cons

Rolling shutter (although no bad reports from tests as yet)
Errrr.........
Ummmmmm....
Struggling......
 
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The image on the FS7 will be way more detailed in 4K, will be way cleaner at all ISOs, and the camera will be much easier to use... If you go by logic, the FS7 is a much better camera, generations ahead. BUT, the F35 users seem to claim there's something special about the F35 images, something about the highlight rolloff and texture, I have no idea if it's true, but unless you can clearly see that special attribute to the F35 image yourself, go with the FS7.

I did not know it was possible for me to read 200+ pages on one thread (the f35 thread) but I did and found it fascinating and extremely entertaining, but yet I am undecided if there's something special about the image or is it a nostalgic thing.
 
The F35 is only 50fps.

As we are all aware I think the "on-paper" benefits of an F35 are few. It is the quality of the picture that speaks for itself.

I would say for a lot of projects an FS7 would be better suited than the F35, but if you're delivering no more than HD and you want an ultimate in picture quality, the F35 can provide that. Mac or someone I believe showed some samples recently of footage between a couple of cameras, was it the A7 and the F35, where there were some weird artifacts going on with the A7 that you will never see "on paper" but they're in the picture.
 
JMtheDP said:
The F35 is only 50fps.

but if you're delivering no more than HD and you want an ultimate in picture quality, the F35 can provide that.
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry, it's F23 that's 60fps.

With HD I wonder if the FS7 would still be equal to or better than the F35 - shoot 4k and down-sample? I dunno...it's a hard sell, and definitely a head and heart type deal!
The other thing for me is that I can't stand hard drives! So I would rather shoot tape - hence am looking at the SRW9000. But then I thought I could even buy an SRW1 and connect that to the FS7 and it would still be as cheap and light and power efficient as the SRW9000!
Steve
 
It would not be as compact as the SRW though.

Build quality is another immeasurable aswell - I've lost count of how many EX1/EX3/F3 handles I have seen break off. The F35 is designed for professional use, pure and simple. It *feels* expensive. Hardly useful when trying to sell it, but something nice still.
 
Wingrove's video on newsshooter had some dodgy roll-off highlight edges.

Im thinking the FS7 will look typically sony

The F5 IMO doesn't create great 1080 (with Xavc codec) - I guess the 7 will be the same

The convenience and spec of the 7 will probably keep most clients happy while the 35 will continue to please cinema-files

Of course the real interest in the 7 is how sexy is the 1080 when you create it from '4k'

S
 
I know a guy that provided Sony with some footage for their NAB display of F65 stuff. It was shot 1080P, 220mbps. People still oooh-ed and aaaah-ed. Resolution is such bulls£"$.
 
morgan_moore said:
Of course the real interest in the 7 is how sexy is the 1080 when you create it from '4k'

S
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I was gonna say when you said that the F5 doesn't do great 1080 - I'm sure you're right, even with the 2k OLPF - but yeah downsampled from 4k tends to yield a very good HD image doesn't it.
No doubt about it, the FS7 is a very appealing bit of kit, and with body only £5,599...hard to argue with that.
Steve
 
JMtheDP said:
Resolution is such bulls£"$.
Click to expand...

I know that, you know that...but try telling that to the person hiring you!
I've always equated it to mobile phone stills cameras - the latest iphone might well have a zillion pixels, but does that mean it will make a better 16x20 print than a 10 year old DSLR with a tenth of the resolution? Highly unlikely. It's just 1 number in a big package of variables.
Steve
 
steve phillipps said:
Yeah that's what I was gonna say when you said that the F5 doesn't do great 1080 - I'm sure you're right, even with the 2k OLPF - but yeah downsampled from 4k tends to yield a very good HD image doesn't it.
No doubt about it, the FS7 is a very appealing bit of kit, and with body only £5,599...hard to argue with that.
Steve
Click to expand...


My FS100 VS the F5 using 1080 XAVC.. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33167160/ouch.jpg

You can see the horrid compression artefacts in the shadows and some form of magenta fringing created by the onboard downscale

Yep the F5 is smoother than the FS100 but simply the 1080 is not as good as the PMWF3/422, of course the F5/1080/SR444 is very nice but expensive if recorded to SxS

S
 
The eternal problem is if the person hiring you can't see beyond one number, ie. resolution, you're never going to win!
 
Panavision is very picky about IQ on their rental cameras. It is telling that the only Sony's they inventory are the global shutter CCD ones, except for the F55. F35, F23, F900 and the Genesis version of the F35.
 
JMtheDP said:
The eternal problem is if the person hiring you can't see beyond one number, ie. resolution, you're never going to win!
Click to expand...

Precisely - and I imagine the same for archive material - someone looking for 4k material will be happy if the 4k box is ticked, even if it might be inferior to HD originated material.
Steve
 
Razz16mm said:
Panavision is very picky about IQ on their rental cameras. It is telling that the only Sony's they inventory are the global shutter CCD ones, except for the F55. F35, F23, F900 and the Genesis version of the F35.
Click to expand...
And even the F55 is global shutter, even though it's CMOS.
 
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What is interesting about 4K is it seems to be driven increasingly by TV rather than cinema, which is the only place the benefits would really be visible.

I would much rather we just double the bit-rate of TV and bring it to blu-ray quality, rather than making another ill-informed "leap" to 4K. Sadly, most people can't actually see the difference and they just go on numbers they get told by the salesman.
 
First, lets concede that the camera we are forced to choose for clients is not always the camera we would choose for ourselves. And the FS7 offers some flexibilities the F35 doesn't. But, for your pro's/cons list:

F35 Pros
- Mount designed for professional PL lenses, not requiring supports or rails for smaller lenses
- 3200k balanced CCD sensor for exceptional skintones
- global shutter
- 12.44 megapixel sensor (the FS7 is only 11.6 megapixel sensor) for exceptionally sharp 1080p
 
The FS7 will also be an "unproven" product for a little while, although I personally don't have much fear about a brand new Sony product
 
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