F5: Just Got Pre-release F5

mcgeedigital said:
Still dont understand why they put most of the controls on the operator side of the camera, including the headphone jack.

Thats what happens when engineers dont talk to the end operator.
Click to expand...

I think the prob is there's two markets this cam is going after. Run + gun cine, and full on cine.

That said, when I do have an AC, they're on the left side of the cam. I'm not sure why dumb side is better. Especially when you HAVE to put on extra gack, it's either going to go on dumb side, top side, or back (I prefer dumb side).

There's also a chance that they are forseeing the day when fiddly stuff will be controlled remotely by wifi, which has been hinted at on this cam.

I guess it's just I can see a couple reasons not to put controls on dumb side (you then can't put gack there, AC isn't always there), but only one to not put them on operator side (can't access controls mid shot while handheld)

I've never minded stepping away from the cam for a sec so AC can get in there and do something.

Or am I crazy?

(but the headphone jack, yeah, that was dumb)
 
Last edited:
"Still don't understand why they put most of the controls on the operator side of the camera, including the headphone jack.

That's what happens when engineers dont talk to the end operator."


Bottom line is, who is going to have the camera on their right shoulder or be on the left side of lens "The DP" not the AC. Who is more important in terms of needing to know what is going on with camera the DP (or operator for the big guys) not the AC. AC's can adapt to either side, that is their job. If an AC starts whining about what side he has to sit on, then he can just go and hang out by the monitor and I'll do it myself.

Headphone jack, another issue easily fixed and needs to be.
 
Nate Weaver said:
I've never minded stepping away from the cam for a sec so AC can get in there and do something.

Or am I crazy?

(but the headphone jack, yeah, that was dumb)
Click to expand...

No, i think we are talking purely in, "if i had my druthers" terms. I think everyone in every segment of the industry makes compromises. Walking around or working on the left side are realities for the most part. Fun to have remotes, but not all productions have them, and buying one for every camera out there is not a solution.

Maybe soon they will figure out an autofocus that works well.

You seem like a courteous professional, which would be a joy to work with.

To be honest, I do not find dslr's, reds, or alexas bad or inconvenient. When using them, I think about how to do the job, because by that point you can't change the camera design. But if I had my druthers, can't see that it would hurt the 1 AC or smaller crews to have ergonomics with a second person in mind.

I am naturally inclined to work on the left side whether oping or acing, but some ops like to work on the left side and don't want the AC on their side. There is nothing wrong with that. When I can do my job, and compliment how someone else does their job, I find that productive and rewarding.
 
On the controls, I think its all a bit poor - yes they are OK but a really great camera you could change the controls with your eyes shut or at least buried in an EVF

There should be controls on both sides, I mean what is there to control? shutter, Fps, wb, iso .. thats four pots .. or one pot and a button to scroll through what the pot is doing

S
 
I like how well thought out designs feel instantly familiar, and appreciation grows with time.

arri_alexa.jpg
though the real estate differences between an alexa and an f5 are very different. So, hopefully no one sees this as a direct comparison of cameras. The f5 is tiny. Still enough room for little buttons or a joystick on the right, if they thought about it early enough. I find Sony's current camera shapes somewhat neither here nor there. By the time an f5 is kitted up, it will be approx the size and weight of an alexa stripped down. Arri has those ingenious 15mm rod connectors built in under the lens mount, and a shoulder scoop. No need for elaborate rigging for shoulder mount. And on the other end, an f5 will never be as small and flexible as the DSLR form. Yet, while being neither here nor there in design, it is also a marriage of the compact and complete. We'll see how that plays out.
 
Last edited:
I guess when I was a 1st, (90s), there was never any camera that had any controls on dumb side. FPS, run, etc was always on op side. The Alexa is the first to put things on dumb side, as far as I can think of offhand.

I don't think I could call myself old-school without rolling even my own eyes, but I certainly understand why the Alexa way is nice sometimes. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

In the F5/55 FDTimes book, Jon Fauer asked the Sony engineers why they didn't build in the shoulder pad and LW15 like the Alexa:

"My grousing about lack of rosettes on the camera body itself elicited muffled chortles by the designers: did we want a bigger camera body with rosettes or a smaller body without? They made the right decision. There are ample threaded holes on top and bottom."
Click to expand...

I have to say I agree. I'd rather have the choice. Especially now that Arri has shown their 5/55 baseplate/handheld rig and it's every bit as good as what Arri always does.
 
Last edited:
The F23 (2007) and F35 had an ROP on the dumb side - a cabled remote but it's "normal" position was the dumb side. It was simply a duplicate of the operator side display/controls.
 
Nate Weaver said:
I guess when I was a 1st, (90s), there was never any camera that had any controls on dumb side. FPS, run, etc was always on op side. The Alexa is the first to put things on dumb side, as far as I can think of offhand.

I don't think I could call myself old-school without rolling even my own eyes, but I certainly understand why the Alexa way is nice sometimes. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

In the F5/55 FDTimes book, Jon Fauer asked the Sony engineers why they didn't build in the shoulder pad and LW15 like the Alexa:



I have to say I agree. I'd rather have the choice. Especially now that Arri has shown their 5/55 baseplate/handheld rig and it's every bit as good as what Arri always does.
Click to expand...

With these digital cameras, especially ones with baked in WB and gain, AC's need to have more immediate access to camera settings than before. I assume Alexa's have so much on the dumb side because of this. Meanwhile the traditional film style op controls are still where they have always been. Film was loaded and labelled by AC, so not much different between performing those functions off the camera, or on the dumb side, the op controls have stayed the same. - sorry hope that doesn't sound like a history lesson, just spouting my thought process on the design.

About the F5 design, yeah, I am curious to see how it woks out. Some people complain about the RED system,and the sony seems to be inline with this, yet starting at an even slightly larger initial form. Once it goes to 4k, it seems pointless to consider it handheld as it reaches HVX and f3 proportions. Seems like the price bracket will allow for many owner operators, so, there will probably be few complaints since they know what they want. Anyway, I definitely see how the F5 could appeal.

I quite like the dslr form, for personal oping. So something like the Red Epic system appeals to me. I remember the first time I saw the epic in action, saw a bcam op for T Malick's film 'Lawless, and it seemed quite dslr-ish to use, though quite a bit heavier, and I fell in love. The issue with reds, is they are a bit pricey and impractical for personal work, and on some indie features you may not get all the rigging and parts you want. I think of that part in "Napoleon Dynamite" where the uncle gets mad at Napoleon for wanting the larger pack of markers making him go with the eight pack, "You'll just have to mix and match!"
 
Last edited:
James0b57 said:
I quite like the dslr form, for personal oping. So something like the Red Epic system appeals to me. I remember the first time I saw the epic in action, saw a bcam op for T Malick's film 'Lawless, and it seemed quite dslr-ish to use,
Click to expand...

I went to pinewood and built myself an epic for shoulder use, I didnt end up buying it, but very quickly I could find the controls on the dumbside (side handle) and use them even I had no eye contact with the the buttons, like DLSRs, no way i can find controls on my FS100 without eye contact, I guess that goes for the F5 too
 
I'd tweak my own settings, but then I'm also used to using camcorders... Why would I bother an AC to change things like WB, shutter and so on when it takes 5 seconds to do it myself? The F5 has a very nice interface, IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top