Just got a new camera - Sony F35
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Sure thing! I am actually trying to figure that out too, but currently i am unsure what i want.
SJX
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Panavision is now selling their accessories?
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SJX
Veteran
Interesting. I think if anybody tip Panavision they would make that list disappear. I think nothing property of Panavision is allowed to sell. This must leaked through the cracks somehow.
rbirnbaum
Well-known member
Can’t find the info... but the F35 can be powered via
1. IF Box XLR
2. Lemo 8pin
But what are the advantages disadvantages of each? Do both options power the side power Fischer and lemo connectors? I have powered without IF Box via 8pin Lemo for a lighter 422 package... any other advantages disadvantages?
1. IF Box XLR
2. Lemo 8pin
But what are the advantages disadvantages of each? Do both options power the side power Fischer and lemo connectors? I have powered without IF Box via 8pin Lemo for a lighter 422 package... any other advantages disadvantages?
rbirnbaum
Well-known member
Anyone?
IIRC from somewhere in the forums, the IF box wouldn't power the side power ports, which was why it was better to obtain an 8pin Lemo battery plate or something similar and just route power directly to the body. Or something like that.
This and the lemo port is necessary if you are using a docking recorder like the SRW-1 or Codex. Other than those few things I don't think there is any difference.
rbirnbaum
Well-known member
Thanks guys. That is all I needed to know. I am thinking of using the side output ports to power out accesories instead of P-Tap. Just like the locking mechanism of the Fischer and Lemo connectors.
Unless you take something out of your F35, you don't have a whole lot of empty space in there. I have experimented with other recorders but I must say I am a believer that EVERY F35 should have an Odyssey 7Q in it's package. Even if you have another smaller recorder. They are cheap used - the 7+ is not necessary and the original 7Q can be had for $800. If you don't have 7Q with your F35, I highly recommend thinking about that before any other upgrades.
Get yourself 2 nice gimbal sdi cables.
Convergent Design did something very special for us by spending time and money to record our bizarre A and B link 24 Psf format. Mitch was very active in the forum developing the software. They were the only ones to solve the 107% highlights that every other recorder attempting the 12-bit were clipping. I think this issue is forgotten and looked over often, as soon as you go onto 12-bit 4444 territory you need to be aware that recorder or post software can clip the 107 highlights where there is still information.
The 7Q has SLOG 1 LUTS, can handle the high speed! It feels like it was made to work with the F35. It can add timecode and audio to the F35 image.
I understand wanting to experiment with other recorders for size, but the 7Q at ~ $800 SHOULD be a part of every 5k F35 package, Trust me if you don't have one, track one down, you will find it becomes essential to the F35 package.
Media blackout made me the 12v Lemo to Dtap cable for $199 - very nice but not cheap, if you really want to use the side port for power. I would suggest AB batteries with the D tap port on the battery.
There is seller on eBay selling Dtap to Lemo cables for F65/F35/F23, this is the cheapest option to get lemo power in. I was thinking about cutting off the DTap and connecting it to the back of an AB plate.
Get yourself 2 nice gimbal sdi cables.
Convergent Design did something very special for us by spending time and money to record our bizarre A and B link 24 Psf format. Mitch was very active in the forum developing the software. They were the only ones to solve the 107% highlights that every other recorder attempting the 12-bit were clipping. I think this issue is forgotten and looked over often, as soon as you go onto 12-bit 4444 territory you need to be aware that recorder or post software can clip the 107 highlights where there is still information.
The 7Q has SLOG 1 LUTS, can handle the high speed! It feels like it was made to work with the F35. It can add timecode and audio to the F35 image.
I understand wanting to experiment with other recorders for size, but the 7Q at ~ $800 SHOULD be a part of every 5k F35 package, Trust me if you don't have one, track one down, you will find it becomes essential to the F35 package.
Media blackout made me the 12v Lemo to Dtap cable for $199 - very nice but not cheap, if you really want to use the side port for power. I would suggest AB batteries with the D tap port on the battery.
There is seller on eBay selling Dtap to Lemo cables for F65/F35/F23, this is the cheapest option to get lemo power in. I was thinking about cutting off the DTap and connecting it to the back of an AB plate.
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rbirnbaum
Well-known member
Yachacha, thanks for posting all of this. Yeap... $199 for a 12v lemo to Dtap is insane. I have AB batteries with the port, is just that the cables hanging of the side annoy me. Oh well... will have to accept it.
Recorder wise, yeah, the Odyssey is king with the F35. I just am a fan of buttons and I like the Pix recorders for that reason. I will bite the bullet and get one eventually, though the 7" screen has me sitting on the wall. I do like that it has a remote trigger rec button with light that you can velcro on the camera so that you don't have to use your fingers on the touch screen. Hate touch screens for pro work. Give me some buttons. And the audio recording on the Video Devices is top notch. Guess there are arguments both ways, but really for the odd 444 job, the Odyssey rules.
I have a question though. I thought that 109% was only achieved on HG3 and HG4 modes and that CineEI only gave you 104%, am I right? I read it here: https://www.provideocoalition.com/non_technical_f35_guide/
I also thought the AJA 3G to recorder was a proved method that was working. Do pix recorders not give you max white levels is 12 bit RGB? What would be a good way to test this? Choosing "Full" in clip attributes in Resolve should achieve the full display of the clip's DR, right?
Really appreciate all your feedback man, you are so informed on the F35 and its nuances.
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rbirnbaum
Well-known member
The Ultimate Recorder Test - not really... but I went over to Ed David's and we shot these. Pushed the footage. Both in Odyssey DPX and in PIX E5 through AJA 3G.
Only difference we saw on set was that the Odyssey did not display the full range on the Waveform Monitor, but the PiX E5 did.
Pictures illustrate the setup.
Vimeo has description and link to original footage from both recorders.
Ed and I agreed that we shouldn't have clipped the highlights on the Quasar... but time was at a premium... Post your grades and feedback. Would be much appreciated.
Only difference we saw on set was that the Odyssey did not display the full range on the Waveform Monitor, but the PiX E5 did.
Pictures illustrate the setup.
Vimeo has description and link to original footage from both recorders.
Ed and I agreed that we shouldn't have clipped the highlights on the Quasar... but time was at a premium... Post your grades and feedback. Would be much appreciated.
I can't remember anymore, we really should compile some sort of document. Basically upgrading to 12-bit files from the F35 you encounter 2 problems. 1. the dual link psf format. 2. the 104% highlight information of the F35.
The original issue with the F35 12-bit format was the 12-bit PSF split over 2 SDI lines, it was a strange format and no recorder could read it right. Yes the AJA LUT box solved this strange 2 SDI cable problem by combining it into a much easier to recognize 3G format. I think it was film scientist http://filmscientist.com/mblog/2014/11/18/12bit/ who deserves the original credit with this discovery. This opened up the F35 to 12-bit capable recorders, he used the Gemini but the Pix should also work. 7Q can accept the dual link signal without additional box.
The 104% highlight information was a completely different problem. Here it seemed that 10-bit 104% information worked fine with ProRes 10-bit files across the board, but were getting clipped in the 12-bit recorder files. Convergent Design had to do a firmware change in order to record all this information. I do not know the answer if this was ever solved with the pix. Gemini did not run into this issue because it was not recording ProRes. The issue is specific to ProRes 12-bit 4444. I also know it was a big headache working with the files in a lot of software, it was easy to clip the whites at 100% at many stages in the post process. Ironically Final Cut 7's Original Compressor had the easiest way to squeeze everything into the 100% it's hidden in the big thread. Yes the other solution was to use the Hyper Gammas that crunch the highlights in camera so everything is within 100% range to begin with.
There is no method of upconverting to 4k which benefits from 12-bit HD Files over 10-bit. Once we discover that workflow, the 12-bit output of the F35 becomes more useful in my opinion.
What is the best possible F35 workflow? I think Apocalypto and Real Steel Bluray prove this. Shoot F35 DPX sequence, print to 35mm film, scan 35mm. Hahaha but who has that money.
The original issue with the F35 12-bit format was the 12-bit PSF split over 2 SDI lines, it was a strange format and no recorder could read it right. Yes the AJA LUT box solved this strange 2 SDI cable problem by combining it into a much easier to recognize 3G format. I think it was film scientist http://filmscientist.com/mblog/2014/11/18/12bit/ who deserves the original credit with this discovery. This opened up the F35 to 12-bit capable recorders, he used the Gemini but the Pix should also work. 7Q can accept the dual link signal without additional box.
The 104% highlight information was a completely different problem. Here it seemed that 10-bit 104% information worked fine with ProRes 10-bit files across the board, but were getting clipped in the 12-bit recorder files. Convergent Design had to do a firmware change in order to record all this information. I do not know the answer if this was ever solved with the pix. Gemini did not run into this issue because it was not recording ProRes. The issue is specific to ProRes 12-bit 4444. I also know it was a big headache working with the files in a lot of software, it was easy to clip the whites at 100% at many stages in the post process. Ironically Final Cut 7's Original Compressor had the easiest way to squeeze everything into the 100% it's hidden in the big thread. Yes the other solution was to use the Hyper Gammas that crunch the highlights in camera so everything is within 100% range to begin with.
There is no method of upconverting to 4k which benefits from 12-bit HD Files over 10-bit. Once we discover that workflow, the 12-bit output of the F35 becomes more useful in my opinion.
What is the best possible F35 workflow? I think Apocalypto and Real Steel Bluray prove this. Shoot F35 DPX sequence, print to 35mm film, scan 35mm. Hahaha but who has that money.
Run&Gun
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That auction ended almost a year ago...
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What kind of HDSDI cables are you all using? And where do you get them?
I have a few hdsdi cables, but i bought them all under the idea of monitoring, but when it comes to recording, not i am noticing imperfections.
I really like my cinecoil hd-sdi, but i cannot find them online at the moment. Stores in LA have started using the far inferior wooden camera bnc coiled cable that i bought once, the cable died the first day! Never again! And then i have a couple cables that have been ok, but with the short one i have, i am noticing it is fairly sensitive and i have to get right a right angle cable so that i don’t bump the cable when handheld. Causes the recorder to stop because it senses a “frame rate change”. So, just wondering what your solutions are?
I have a few hdsdi cables, but i bought them all under the idea of monitoring, but when it comes to recording, not i am noticing imperfections.
I really like my cinecoil hd-sdi, but i cannot find them online at the moment. Stores in LA have started using the far inferior wooden camera bnc coiled cable that i bought once, the cable died the first day! Never again! And then i have a couple cables that have been ok, but with the short one i have, i am noticing it is fairly sensitive and i have to get right a right angle cable so that i don’t bump the cable when handheld. Causes the recorder to stop because it senses a “frame rate change”. So, just wondering what your solutions are?
G
Guest
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Btw, i have a Sony cinema lens, and ironically had to file down the elephant ears on the PL lock. I am not a fan of the plastic cinema lens design, but it works, and no discernable wiggle in the focus, so just going to enjoy the cost effective cinema glass that is Sony first gen pl lenses. Anyway, i just got the ears on the F35 PL lock filed down, so will be testing out the Sony lens a bit more soon.