Just got a new camera - Sony F35

I'm mostly a lurker on these forums, but I can read and my eyes can see. So add another to the clan.

I'll be getting my F35 next week. :smile:

I've been in the film/video animation biz almost 20 yrs (many hats-- writer, storyboards/previs, layout/digital DP, lead animator, VFX supervisor, director, dir. of animation, production design, CG Supervisor, editor; working on commercials, DVD, film and games, etc.). About 3 years back I got the itch to try my hand at live action to tell my personal short stories outside of work (animation takes too long! :grin: ). Since then I've become hooked on it. So much to learn, so many mistakes to make. heh. I've taken the usual route from HD minicams to DSLR to lower end s35 cams (just sold my FS100 that I shot my last short on). I was gonna jump up to an F3 for my next project because I wanted to have the latitude of sLOG in post, but this thread caught my eye. The look of the F35 is just so... exquisite. And the price? Crazy.

So while I'm not a pro shooter like most of you fine folk, I know how to tell a story, compose an image and I know what I want. I'm eager to start messing around with this thing, making mistakes and learning as I go (if I'm not pushing my own boundaries and learning then I'm dying). It's amazing to me that this technology has dropped down in price so that folks like myself can play with it.

Reading the posts here has been immensely helpful in figuring out if I could make a go of it, so I want to say thanks to all of you early adopters for blazing the trail.

-k
 
Sparky874 said:
Hello everyone. Picked up an F35 a couple of weeks ago but have been too busy shooting away with my regular work to get to play with it - until this afternoon! Here is my first trial. There is some strange 'Zebra' type patterning on some of the highlights on some shots, the Samurai was connected to the HDSDI 2 port - so I need to find out whats happening here. But my first F35 step has now been taken. The password for the video is: F35 Best, Sparky
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Is it just me, or does this camera's handling of mixed lighting (daylight/tungsten) in skin tones stand out? I've seen this in some of Mac's earlier test clips and I see it again here. For not geling those windows the skin tones in mixed light look fantastic. Maybe other cameras do this just as well, but I do like how this one handles the mix.


-k
 
keithlango said:
Is it just me, or does this camera's handling of mixed lighting (daylight/tungsten) in skin tones stand out? I've seen this in some of Mac's earlier test clips and I see it again here. For not geling those windows the skin tones in mixed light look fantastic. Maybe other cameras do this just as well, but I do like how this one handles the mix.
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I have found Sony's ability to get skin-tones bang-on to be a standout feature of their high-end cameras. Both my F900 and F35 were nearly impossible to flummox - you had to be doing something really stupid to wreck things. Even getting your white balance setting wrong, while not a good idea, is not the disaster that it could be. I find this is a major advantage over DSLR cameras, where I find anything shot under tungsten light always looks too orange.

Sony aren't unique in having great skin-tones, of course, but they are the ones I can speak about with most experience.
 
JMtheDP said:
Hi Sparky,

Welcome to the family :D

I am afraid you may get a little bit of flak on this one, you've commited a classic school-boy error there :D

The camera's "monitor" outputs can have any number of things on them, markers, viewfinder info, LUTs, ZEBRAS.... or they can be a clean feed. The camera's interface box will ONLY output a clean feed - so use that for your recording device and it'll avoid this sort of thing happening.

Fortunately this is what testing is for :D

To turn these things off, go into the menu (can't remember which menu, I think it's operation). You'll need the proper menus, not the user menu. To activate those, click in the menu wheel and while it is held down press the VF Menu button. That'll activate the menu proper. They navigate like any pro Sony menu.

Enjoy :D

(PS What lenses?)
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Thanks for that feedback. Just had a good play with the menus and have everything sorted, I think! One question I still have though if you don't mind. ISO or gain. I have set my levels of GAIN in the menu at +6 and +12db, but I can't seem to turn on the gain on. How do I do this? Does shooting in S-LOG prevent me from doing this? There is as assign button option of using -9 and -18db of gain (not sure what the camera is going here), but ultimately I would love to assign an assign switch to control gain. The camera struggles a little in low light so adding gain is pretty important to me - just how do I do it?! I can do it easily enough when shooting log on my F3 - though appreciate it's in a different class.
Bill - I did shoot the short clip opf my son with his PlayMobil using S-LOG and added a small color curve in Sony Vegas. That's all - it's a really simple process really.
Thanks Yall. Sparky
 
keithlango said:
I'll be getting my F35 next week. :smile:

So while I'm not a pro shooter like most of you fine folk, I know how to tell a story, compose an image and I know what I want. I'm eager to start messing around with this thing, making mistakes and learning as I go (if I'm not pushing my own boundaries and learning then I'm dying).
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Welcome Keith, and congratulations on the baby.

The F35, as you'll have gathered, is a truly world-class camera at a fantastic price point. Now, you should have gathered this from reading the forum already, but when stepping up from prosumer to professional cameras you just need to be aware that you are buying into a SYSTEM. Apologies if this is obvious to you, but just remember with your lovely new baby comes the need for many accessories. The good news is that nearly all of these accessories will last a long, long time as they are fairly generic 35mm bits.

We will all be on hand to help, there are some rig ideas about already.

Best
James
 
@Sparky,

the F35 has the menus from most Sony broadcast cameras, but not the controls. I am not sure about mapping gain to an assignable button, but I can provide a few answers.

1. GAIN is changed on the operations panel, on the relevant page. It's the one I have mine set to most of the time and in CINE Mode will look like this:

0db (450) 5.3E (or 800%)
TUNGSTEN

You hold the selector down, and can change the gain value on here, not in the menu.

2. The strong minus gain options are designed for focus pullers. If you're checking focus you want to do it with the lens wide open, where focus is most critical. However, this will often over-expose the image if you're lit for, say, T5.6. The -9 and -18db settings are there so focus pullers can open up, click that and get a picture, and stop back down and click it off. Saves dropping in an ND just for marks.

3. Personally, I would not use the F35 at very high ISO in night scenes. The higher ISO you have, the noisier shadows become. At night, you've got a lot of shadows! This camera produces stellar pictures but IT NEEDS LIGHT. Sony did not envision their $250,000 marvel being used on a set without anything other than a full lighting kit. The redheads-and-a-650 market was more what the F3 was aimed at. Your lens is only a T3 too, which is on the slow side. I had the RED lens and changed from that to some Zeiss Standard Speeds, which are T2.1. The difference was remarkable.

Also, make sure to black balance. I tend to do it once when the camera is turned on, once again when it's up to temperature and if we're shooting at night generally when we move setups or the temperature changes drastically.
 
JMtheDP said:
@Sparky,

the F35 has the menus from most Sony broadcast cameras, but not the controls. I am not sure about mapping gain to an assignable button, but I can provide a few answers.

1. GAIN is changed on the operations panel, on the relevant page. It's the one I have mine set to most of the time and in CINE Mode will look like this:

0db (450) 5.3E (or 800%)
TUNGSTEN

You hold the selector down, and can change the gain value on here, not in the menu.

2. The strong minus gain options are designed for focus pullers. If you're checking focus you want to do it with the lens wide open, where focus is most critical. However, this will often over-expose the image if you're lit for, say, T5.6. The -9 and -18db settings are there so focus pullers can open up, click that and get a picture, and stop back down and click it off. Saves dropping in an ND just for marks.

3. Personally, I would not use the F35 at very high ISO in night scenes. The higher ISO you have, the noisier shadows become. At night, you've got a lot of shadows! This camera produces stellar pictures but IT NEEDS LIGHT. Sony did not envision their $250,000 marvel being used on a set without anything other than a full lighting kit. The redheads-and-a-650 market was more what the F3 was aimed at. Your lens is only a T3 too, which is on the slow side. I had the RED lens and changed from that to some Zeiss Standard Speeds, which are T2.1. The difference was remarkable.

Also, make sure to black balance. I tend to do it once when the camera is turned on, once again when it's up to temperature and if we're shooting at night generally when we move setups or the temperature changes drastically.
Click to expand...


Thanks James
I do change the setting on the operations menu - but when I scroll through the options - 450 EI / 640 EI - 800 EI - 1000 EI - it doesn't make any difference to the image - to the levels on the waveform monitor for example. Why might this is the case? Also what would be the maximum ISO/gain you would be happy to shoot at (I don't mind a little noise).
Big question for you James please! What is the difference between shooting in CINE mode and CINE EI mode? I have been using CINE EI mode. Could this by why changing the ISO is making any difference?
Massive thanks in advance!
Sparky
 
@James Martin
James, I just figured it out! I changed the cameras setting from CINE EI to CINE mode and this allowed me to change the GAIN - so there you go. I would still like to know the difference between these two modes. I guess using 9db at 1250 ISO would be as much as you would want to add in low light.

I only thing I need to get now is a few screw on ND filters for my RED 17-50mm lens so I can go and shoot outside!
 
macgregor said:
Turn the shutter ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnn
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Thanks MAC. Would you never select to turn the shooter off when shooting in low light (when framing locked off shots without too much movement) to gain the extra light? Thanks, Sparky
 
Shutter is a very personal preference. I really hate the look of shutter off, and only use it as an absolute last resort.

At night, I will go to around ISO 900 (6db gain). During the day I will be braver. For example, I am shooting a feature in a few weeks' time where I will be shooting at ISO 2000 to give the film a grain.

-----------------------
CINE-EI Mode is a special mode that Sony introduced in one of the last firmware updates (the one that also gave 12-bit out).

Basically, you choose one of the four ISOs - 450,640,800,1000. The recorded image is, as you observed, not changed AT ALL.

What changes is the amount of gain applied to the LUT on your monitor. It previews what the picture will look like after your post lab have tinkered with it. Like "push processing" in film terms.

It is designed for film people who want to use the camera like a film camera. The stock doesn't change, but you can rate it how you like. When you change the EI/ISO on the side, you will notice the number beside changes. That is your over-exposure latitude in stops which obviously increases as you begin to underexposure the camera. In the manual, Sony recommend using this mode with a lightmeter.
-----

Cine mode is the camera's default mode and pre-selects a number of options for you, intended to give a picture in post suitable for grading etc etc....

Custom mode gives you full control over all the camera's settings and works like a Sony broadcast camera.

hope that helps!
 
That's a great help James, CINE mode it is then! Interesting approach you are taking with adding ISO during a daylight scene to add gain! Would be very interested to see the results. Thanks as ever, Sparky
 
JMtheDP said:
-----------------------
CINE-EI Mode is a special mode that Sony introduced in one of the last firmware updates (the one that also gave 12-bit out).

Basically, you choose one of the four ISOs - 450,640,800,1000. The recorded image is, as you observed, not changed AT ALL.

What changes is the amount of gain applied to the LUT on your monitor. It previews what the picture will look like after your post lab have tinkered with it. Like "push processing" in film terms.

It is designed for film people who want to use the camera like a film camera. The stock doesn't change, but you can rate it how you like. When you change the EI/ISO on the side, you will notice the number beside changes. That is your over-exposure latitude in stops which obviously increases as you begin to underexposure the camera. In the manual, Sony recommend using this mode with a lightmeter.
-----

Cine mode is the camera's default mode and pre-selects a number of options for you, intended to give a picture in post suitable for grading etc etc....

Custom mode gives you full control over all the camera's settings and works like a Sony broadcast camera.

hope that helps!
Click to expand...


Hi James

Interested in the differences between CINE-E mode and CINE mode.
So if I understand correctly, in CINE-E your ISO has absolutely no effect on the image output through the IF Box SDI's, leaving you to do it all in post, and in CINE mode ISO choice does change the gain of the image out the IF box SDI's?
I'd like control in post, and not many options to mess with in camera. so I assume CINE-E mode is best for control in post.
But would I get a cleaner image post gained or gained in camera in CINE mode?
Trying to get my head around this, as I am about to get my F35 back and will have to dive straight into paying work with it.

Many thanks

Justin
 
I haven't done enough of my own testing to verify. If you're going out into the wild, I would suggest CINE mode to begin with unless you're very confident of your abilities to push/pull the camera.

james
 
Cool thanks James.
Does both CINE and CINE-E mode give you the same amount of control "in camera"? I understand "custom mode" gives you all the options to play with, but i don't want that. I want an image that doesn't have any added sharpness/detail etc etc. Just a clean as possible output in s-log to the cinedeck.
Thoughts?

Justin
 
Well cine mode obviously gives you a bit more control, as you can apply gain at the camera head. CINE EI is designed for shooting "like film", where the speed of your stock is constant. A good match for sets where you've got another camera with 500ASA in it.
 
My F35 is finally back from repairs! Just the last couple of minutes have proved to me once and for all that buying this beauty was the right decision for me.
I'm doing an editing job this weekend, so I'll have to wait a couple of days with real testing, but the images I've got out of the camera so far are blowing me away. Now I just have to build a shoulder rig. Stealing your design, Miguel!
 
JMtheDP said:
Well cine mode obviously gives you a bit more control, as you can apply gain at the camera head. CINE EI is designed for shooting "like film", where the speed of your stock is constant. A good match for sets where you've got another camera with 500ASA in it.
Click to expand...

Thanks again James. Hopefully I can put the camera through its paces on Tuesday. I''l try my best to post sum after the shoot.
 
I'm experiencing some random green flickering and small white speckles in some parts of my footage. Do you think it's a connectivity issue or could it be the camera itself?
 
Here is another short clip of a few shots I grabbed around the house earlier. PASSWORD: F35

https://vimeo.com/61362684
The weather has been shocking all day here in the UK, just hasn't stopped raining so I didn't get a chance to head out and grab something more interesting, so sorry about that. What I am amazed at, is how much you can push the footage, lift the dark areas etc with a color curve and the image hold up so well. I probably underexposed a few of these shots but had no issues lifting them back to where they should be. Really impressed so far by the F35s image. In edit I just played with a color curve on each and added a touch more saturation to the whole timeline.
Really getting to like this camera more and more. It's power hungry though and eats its way through a 160 Wh battery pretty quickly. My Samurai randomly powered itself off a couple of times this afternoon (no idea why) so I need to look into this to see if its just the Samurai acting up (although I have never had an issue with the Samurai doing this before) or something to do with the connection to the camera. Anyway, thanks for listening! Sparky
 
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