Alan Pierson
Member
I was about to get the Cinedeck... but I found out the 50p only records at 8bit cineform...
I think it will do 50p in Prores 444 at 10 bits though. Don't have it in my hands yet to test it out but I'll try next week.
Just got a new camera - Sony F35
- Thread starter macgregor
- Start date
I think it will do 50p in Prores 444 at 10 bits though. Don't have it in my hands yet to test it out but I'll try next week.
LeavingTheCandy
Well-known member
Working on getting the Pix240i working with a multiplexer and the F35 dual-link. So far, I have 10-bit 444 no problem, but not 12. The multiplexer (BlackMagic) is supposed to just pass the 10 or 12 bit through to 3G, but the Pix is reporting it as just 10 bit, whether sending 10 or 12. When I record, I can't see a difference. I'm not sure if there's a way to test other than an SDI Analyzer tool.
Anyone?
Anyone?
macgregor
Veteran
Not according to the specs. And to make sure, I called them and they confirmed only 8bit at 50p...
Grug
Veteran
IMO at the moment it looks like the best (lightweight) option is running a dual recorder setup) the PIX240 for 12-bit (via a multiplexer hopefully) ProRes4444 for 1080p up to 30fps, and then running a Gemini for all 50p work (feeding the Gemini playback into the PIX to secure 10-bit 4:4:4 ProRes Masters of the 50fps material).
It's not an elegant solution, but it should still be cheaper and lighter than the SR-R1.
It's not an elegant solution, but it should still be cheaper and lighter than the SR-R1.
Alan Pierson
Member
That's disappointing. Would have sworn the manual listed it as an option... I wonder if the OB-1 is worth looking into? There's one on ebay for 4k
LeavingTheCandy
Well-known member
What the heck's an OB-1? I thought he was a Jedi Knight?
macgregor
Veteran
Where's the link to it? I can't find it.
However you need some short of copy machine to read the mags, right?
macgregor
Veteran
The SR-R1 is actually cheaper than the Gemini. The downside is you'll need a SR memory card reader, and the cheapest sells for just ... $2000. XDDD
Alan Pierson
Member
Here's the link to the OB-1: http://www.ebay.com/itm/OB-1-Recorder-/111014951560?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item19d901ba88
I believe there's a way to download the footage with the recorder, might be too much hassle though.
I believe there's a way to download the footage with the recorder, might be too much hassle though.
Grug
Veteran
Since when? Isn't it $10k or so?
Jusgorilla
Well-known member
hahaha
Hunter Hampton
Carbonite Member
Omg- unrelated but that same seller is also selling a whole set of digi primes for $17k... That was like a $120k set. Is the sky caving in? Do people know something I don't? Was Kubriks 2001 a documentary?
Jusgorilla
Well-known member
Thats insane! what a good deal. He won't ship international tho ;( but I'm spending too much already. Gotta know when to call it quits.
macgregor
Veteran
Much less than that now apparently...
Digiprimes are for 2/3" sensors. Doubt they would cover the S35 sensor of a F35. Besides they are optimized to shoot through a prism in a 3CCD camera. Not sure how good they would be with a single sensor camera.
When you consider that, the price drop makes sense. 2/3" has fallen off the tree for cinematic production pretty much. It's a 35mm world and 2/3" is mainly used in news and broadcast where zooms are preferred. Not much of a market for 2/3" cinema primes anymore.
Last edited:
JMtheDP
Veteran
Just a few things for those guys asking questions, as I've done a lot of this research a few months ago...
1. Yes, the Cinedeck will only officially do 50p @ 8-bit, apparently due to a hardware limitation. This sucks royally, but if you do your looking you'll see the Gemini is not really any better. The people selling the cinedeck are using some misleading specs. Not cinedeck themselves, but a lot of the retailers claim it will do things like 12-bit etc etc... when it more or less won't (12-bit cineform RAW, but it's v different).
2. You MUST use the dual-link output from the interface box for your recorder. That output will always be clean and if you want 4:4:4 it's the only way to get it. 4:4:4 12-bit at higher than 30fps requires a second IF box and QUAD LINK SDI (yep!). As per their manual.
3. CINE-EI Mode. Basically, it's a form of cine mode. Choose your preferred ISO, the camera will adjust it's built-in LUT to preview what that will look like after a one-light. The footage you record does not change whether you are at 450,640,800 or 1000. But the highlight latitude does, and the camera will give you this on the side output.
4. POWERING THE CINEDECK. The cinedeck is a beast. Lovely, but it's a beast. It draws more power than the camera. You can put a battery on it, but you need a meaty battery and that's added weight. The most elegant solution I have found, and the "factory recommended" one, is to power the camera from a suitable block battery to the LEMO 8-pin in. This will power up the accessory ports on the side, and I use the F35 to power the cinedeck from a custom-made cable running from the 24v port (do not use the 12v one, it's not meaty enough).
5. DIGIPRIMES are some of the finest lenses ever made for 2/3". They are B4 mount and won't even fit, let alone cover the sensor.... which leads me on to
-------------------------AN ENORMOUS AND IMPORTANT WARNING FOR PEOPLE BUYING F35S AND PUTTING CHEAP LENSES ON THEM------------------------
Apologies to those of you who know this already, but it's a very important warning:
Sony/Panavision decided when they built the Genesis/F35 to create a sealed cavity between the pre-filter and sensor in order to prevent dust build-up being an issue. If you look down the throat of your camera, you can see the filter is not laying on top of the sensor, like most digital cameras.
FOR THIS REASON the F35 is not suited to certain "digital only" 35mm lenses, which are often redesigned stills lenses (though not always). The main example that springs to mind is the Angenieux DP series of lenses - the longer ones protrude too far into the throat of the camera, and you'd scratch the filter.
You do not want to scratch that filter, considering none of us have the money to buy an F35 new, you can't afford to replace that filter (it's glued/attached to the sensor block).
This is in the manual, but is easy to gloss over/forget - please don't! You've got about 32mm of clearance if memory serves, maybe less. If measuring lenses, don't forget some will extend when you focus. People putting different mounts on their camera will need to remember this too as you're shaving the PL mount, so reducing the spare distance you have!
--------------
All please enjoy your fantastic, bargain cameras
1. Yes, the Cinedeck will only officially do 50p @ 8-bit, apparently due to a hardware limitation. This sucks royally, but if you do your looking you'll see the Gemini is not really any better. The people selling the cinedeck are using some misleading specs. Not cinedeck themselves, but a lot of the retailers claim it will do things like 12-bit etc etc... when it more or less won't (12-bit cineform RAW, but it's v different).
2. You MUST use the dual-link output from the interface box for your recorder. That output will always be clean and if you want 4:4:4 it's the only way to get it. 4:4:4 12-bit at higher than 30fps requires a second IF box and QUAD LINK SDI (yep!). As per their manual.
3. CINE-EI Mode. Basically, it's a form of cine mode. Choose your preferred ISO, the camera will adjust it's built-in LUT to preview what that will look like after a one-light. The footage you record does not change whether you are at 450,640,800 or 1000. But the highlight latitude does, and the camera will give you this on the side output.
4. POWERING THE CINEDECK. The cinedeck is a beast. Lovely, but it's a beast. It draws more power than the camera. You can put a battery on it, but you need a meaty battery and that's added weight. The most elegant solution I have found, and the "factory recommended" one, is to power the camera from a suitable block battery to the LEMO 8-pin in. This will power up the accessory ports on the side, and I use the F35 to power the cinedeck from a custom-made cable running from the 24v port (do not use the 12v one, it's not meaty enough).
5. DIGIPRIMES are some of the finest lenses ever made for 2/3". They are B4 mount and won't even fit, let alone cover the sensor.... which leads me on to
-------------------------AN ENORMOUS AND IMPORTANT WARNING FOR PEOPLE BUYING F35S AND PUTTING CHEAP LENSES ON THEM------------------------
Apologies to those of you who know this already, but it's a very important warning:
Sony/Panavision decided when they built the Genesis/F35 to create a sealed cavity between the pre-filter and sensor in order to prevent dust build-up being an issue. If you look down the throat of your camera, you can see the filter is not laying on top of the sensor, like most digital cameras.
FOR THIS REASON the F35 is not suited to certain "digital only" 35mm lenses, which are often redesigned stills lenses (though not always). The main example that springs to mind is the Angenieux DP series of lenses - the longer ones protrude too far into the throat of the camera, and you'd scratch the filter.
You do not want to scratch that filter, considering none of us have the money to buy an F35 new, you can't afford to replace that filter (it's glued/attached to the sensor block).
This is in the manual, but is easy to gloss over/forget - please don't! You've got about 32mm of clearance if memory serves, maybe less. If measuring lenses, don't forget some will extend when you focus. People putting different mounts on their camera will need to remember this too as you're shaving the PL mount, so reducing the spare distance you have!
--------------
All please enjoy your fantastic, bargain cameras
Jusgorilla
Well-known member
Thanks for the heads up
JMtheDP
Veteran
No worries. I was made aware of this by some horror stories from Panavision about assistants getting eager to clean the Genesis.
If anyone does desperately feel the need to clean the throat of the camera, then either a very, very, very soft anti-static lens brush or a rocket blower. Not compressed air!
If anyone does desperately feel the need to clean the throat of the camera, then either a very, very, very soft anti-static lens brush or a rocket blower. Not compressed air!
LeavingTheCandy
Well-known member
This is not true. My Angie DP works great on my F35 and there's no scratches on the filter. I'll take some measurements today to provide more info.
JMtheDP
Veteran
That's interesting.
This is a quote from the F35 manual, "Always use a lens whose projection from the flange (A in the figure) is less than 30 mm. Use of any lens that protrudes more tha 30 mm will damage the internal filter."
I could have sworn I saw specs on the Optimo DPs and one of the lenses was more than 30, one was less... do you have the shorter zoom too?
This is a quote from the F35 manual, "Always use a lens whose projection from the flange (A in the figure) is less than 30 mm. Use of any lens that protrudes more tha 30 mm will damage the internal filter."
I could have sworn I saw specs on the Optimo DPs and one of the lenses was more than 30, one was less... do you have the shorter zoom too?