Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

I think I've figured out what it is , Barry. It's the rush you get when you get the latest toy ;D
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I'm not sure... I seem to be alone in feeling this way I guess.  The rush excitment is the 3000 percent cost drop!!  24P HD or not... HD at this price is something to be exicted about!

But it wasn't long before I realized that I spent money that I shouldn't have on something that did nothing to enhance my business or my skills. It leaves you with a very sick feeling, and the sad part is that you're eitheer stuck, or you're going to take a sizable loss when you sell it to get what you really need.
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This happens all the time with technology now and is pretty much unavoidable.  I know some people that were upset cause when the got the DVX100 the A came out later with fixes.  Does that mean the DVX100 is no good?!  Of course not... Is HDV the be all end all to HD?  No... but it's here now and it's on MiniDV!... it could be worse. (it could aslo be better...)

But I do think consumers are getting frustrated about seeing what they own becoming obsolete and having to invest in new technologies. That's why I expect some pretty stiff resistance to changeover.
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While I strongly agree with the frustration part  ??? this is where the word "consumer" is too generic.  Unless you are developing this stuff, in a sense I guess we are all consumers and merly go along with what the puppet masters (the sony's, panasonic, apple, microsoft) tell us we want and need.  I think this stiff resistance to change though is not an accurate statement.  True from a "very basic consumer" stand point but now people are accepting much more technology more often just because...  Does it mean we like it?  No.. but it's the way it is.  BetaSP was the facto TV standard in the day... the transition to digital is underway but here is no clear "right" choice.... merely lots of options. (too many it seems at times).  Companies know this... which is why there is a new something on the market everyday.  Digital cameras?? Shop for one recently... Woah!!!  (I thought video was bad)  There is have literally been thousands of model types in the past couple years and multiple formats.  The funny thing is... most of them accomplish the exact same thing!

The change from 4x3 to 16x9... big change.  VHS to DVD big change.  DVD - HD DVD?  not a big deal but another change. Though people aren't excited about change due to frustration... for those like us who enjoy following trends, I think it's a crazy phenomenon... and really at the end of the day it still comes down to the dollarh billz... and Jody said it best in this clip... it's only 7 grand!  :)  (yes a lot still but it's all relative)

But if he was on the ground with more time and control would he choose the Z1 or the F900?
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Typically you probably wouldn't use the Z1 if the F900 was sitting next to you unused but hey... clearly in his position that is a choice he can decide to make...  ;D (lucky him to have both options)
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

This happens all the time with technology now and is pretty much unavoidable.
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But that's my point-it was avoidable. I didn't need that cam. I just got excited about it. It added nothing to my business, but it took a good chunk away from my checking account. It wasn't that the camera was disappointing in any way. It was the realization that it was an uneeded purchase. That's why I now carfully analyze market trends, my clients, my business, the equipment I currently own, and purchases that I NEED to make. If it's not needed in the near future (HDV, for example), then I won't buy it, no matter how exciting it may be. And those are just sound business practices.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

There is no rush.

Get a better script, learn to light and shoot better.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Thanks everyone. I love a new toy as much as the next guy, never happier than when opening cardboard boxes with Panasonic, Sony etc, etc written on the side. But where does it get me? Does it make me a better film maker? Is my customer actually going to beneifit? Not in this case.

The debate here has reaffirmed that I should be happy and creative with what I have NOW. It's not helpful to be holding the thought that your films could be better "if only I had this... If only I had that ..."

So I look forward to the time when a new cam becomes imperative to my work - Oh, the joy of cardboard boxes ....

Michael
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Have you ever heard of the “Peter Principle?” Yes, HD is far more resolute and places more demands on the people producing it, and that is the point, it is going to separate the wheat from the chaff. I do not know what is happening to business in the U.S., but in my mind having a successful business is not about getting more work because you charge less for your products and services, it is the opposite. You want to be able to raise the bar of quality and charge more for it.

Look, technology is not an autonomous pursuit; it is the conjunction of scientific opportunity, corporate vision, and marketplace struggles. It is my belief that to create a profitable business in the entertainment industry today requires a new approach and a better understanding of how competition and technology plays out in the entertainment industry.

The future of analog magnetic tape, the underlying technology for the VCR, is clearly reaching the end of its product lifecycle. Digital video, in the form of the DVD format is quickly supplanting it. The need for time flexibility has become a defining feature of present day life. The VCR was one of the first technologies to reveal the strength of this need, particularly among the affluent classes, who use the computer and the internet in pursuit of efficiencies in work, shopping and leisure. Home video was only the opening wedge in the digital era that provided the concept of flexible home entertainment.

The U.S. film industry managed to expand its global audience while networks have watched their audience erode. One crucial aspect of the changes has been the relationship between the new market of home video and the mass audience for film. In addition, whereas it would be unwarranted to claim home video had an equal impact on each of the transformations, this new medium directly fueled the most basic transformations of all – the increase in revenue. The unprecedented levels of film revenues over the past two decades has been an enabling condition for new film production, expensive marketing, global domination, and build up of major media mergers. The numbers are staggering.
The major studios had revenues of $2.1 billion in 1975, the year the VCR was introduced to the public, and by 1993, they had $17.4 billion. This is better than an eightfold increase, in the same time that the U.S. consumer price index had less than a threefold increase. The increased revenues are central to the current media environment, and video sales and rentals are central to this increase.

Today, most companies doing digital production are each a niche player without any significant economies of scale. While there are obvious differences including services, pricing, and other attributes from one company to the next, the market has not segmented. In fact, as new technologies were developed that could provide more niche distribution markets, D-cinema, HD(DVD) and broadband distribution for example, companies like AT&T, 4MC, AOL/Time Warner and Point 360 rolled up the competition in an attempt to corner the market. This has resulted in each of them more or less competing for the same customer and each facility is overwhelmingly aimed at accomplishing the same function without significant competitive differentiation. While these companies go to great lengths to tout their competitive differences, they are still competing within the same marketplace in much the same way. There only real differentiation is their price; they are doing considerably more work for less money, which has greatly lowered profitability. This is also true of independent filmmakers.

As I witnessed this consolidation first hand, I got tired of working twice as hard and making half as much money so at the ripe old age of 45 I retired (sort of). I bought a DVX100a and flew around shooting video, I had so much fun that I built myself an editing system and decided to see if I could make money producing DV. I started by producing two wedding videos. That might make a few of you chuckle, but by practicing what I am preaching here I was able to charge $6,000 each.

Sure, I live in Southern California where some people have more money than common sense, but there are also a million idiots with digital 8 cameras charging an average of $900 to $1200. So how did I do it? I didn’t place an ad or make a fancy demo, in fact I did not have a reel at all. I met with a couple of high end wedding photographers, people who could charge $10K or more for a wedding and asked them if they were also providing video services and if so for how much. Both of them contracted for that service, although they thought the videographers were competent they did not like having to work with them and they charged about $2K which was a pass through.

These photographers did not want anything to do with video, the challenge for them was that when customers also asked them to produce their wedding video, if they did not do it the customer would search out a videographer who might also be willing to do the still photography and they would loose out on the entire sale. Therefore, the video production was unavoidable. So my customer wasn’t really the couple getting married it was the photographers.

The couples we produced the video for were a little older and getting married for the second time. They did not want some cheesy “documentary” of their wedding day. So we created a shot list and with two DVX100s we shot enough footage to put together a 25 minute wedding video. Everyone was ecstatic with the outcome, both photographers offered us at least 50 weddings a year each for at least $6K and for a brief moment, we thought about starting a business. However, one thing that I did not take into consideration when we started this was how stressful it is shooting a wedding. I have a newfound respect for anyone who does that for a living regardless of the price.

The point is that this is not about the technology in as much as it is about marketing and business. You need to evaluate the market (sandbox) you are playing in and figure out how you can position your products or services in a way that you can charge more, not less. I am sorry that this will offend some of you, but if your clients are looking for lower prices, find new clients. HD offers a great opportunity for anyone who chooses to raise the bar and separate yourselves from your competition. It’s a chance to up sell your customers on a better quality product that they can’t readily get elsewhere. And I know that many of you are thinking it’s a ways off, you might be right, but I can tell you with a fair amount of certainty that if you are not well positioned when it does happen you will be left behind.

There’s a great book “Crossing the Chasm” by Geoffrey Moore that talks about the technology adoption lifecycle and how to position yourself for growth. I think for anyone who is serious about this business it is worth the read.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

I get your point, Chuck. I guess if you're in the wedding video business - or any business where your workflow is to a certain degree 'transparent' to your client - having the best you can afford at any given moment is excellent leverage to maximizing what you can charge. I absolutely get that making that buisiness work can be about how your whole business appears, as well as the results. However, the point stands about whether there is a noticable difference in the final product - for many of us, our customers are just seeing the product, not how it was made.

MIchael
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Thanks Michael,

Actually I’m not in the wedding business, I just used that as an example of how I applied this thinking to a real situation.

In the U.S., there is a proliferation of HD channels coming on line and all are starving for content. Another point I would like to make is that the demand for this content has dwarfed the ability of content producers to provide enough content to fill the bandwidth under development. This provides independent film producers with potentially multiple distribution channels for their product.

Since my experience with the wedding video, I have spent the last year working on developing content for some of these HD channels. Although the channels I am working with have not written any checks yet they have given me enough of a commitment for us to produce 37 episodes of one program and 13 of another.

I don’t think I am as talented as some of the folks on this site, yet I can pull together a deal like this (hopefully) simply because I look at this opportunity a little differently. All I am saying is that people on this board might want to consider what I’m talking about. After all I’m not charging anyone.

I was the head of the U.S. subsidiary of a company out of Ware, are you near there?
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=ChuckS link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=15#24 date=01/31/05 at 00:04:01]As I witnessed this consolidation first hand, I got tired of working twice as hard and making half as much money so at the ripe old age of 45 I retired (sort of).  I bought a DVX100a and flew around shooting video, I had so much fun that I built myself an editing system and decided to see if I could make money producing DV.  I started by producing two wedding videos.  That might make a few of you chuckle, but by practicing what I am preaching here I was able to charge $6,000 each.    
[/quote]

Go Chuck Go... :) 50 times $6,000... that's quite a bit of potential dough no matter what you are doing!!  You could buy all the DVX's or Z1 you want!  Which ever you feel suits you need best.   ;D

I couldn't have said it better and yet as I write, I can feel the walls going up already from some users here who think differently.  I agree with you emphatically and it has nothing to do with endorsing either the Z1 or the DVX... it is accepting change and reality as a constant.  I don't even really care if people see it this way or not cause to me I will make the most of my opportunities and I will do it the way I see fit.  So far I have thrown out (jokingly I might add) a few comments that were precieved as though I was attacking DVX users... when I really didn't mean it to come across that way.  A few posts later, I have posters and moderators even going so far as to make ethical statement to almost make me look unethical... incinuating things and trying to make it seem as if I was decieving people.  (which to me basically says "see it my way or you are doing this" which I don't agree with)  Again I am new here also and probably and would never claim to be half as skilled as not to come across as a "hot head" to a new the new community.  I know what I know (post rank of 20 or not) and don't need to have experienced people see it my was to feel validated in my decision making.   I just think that maybe there are rules that I am missing here that I don't understand yet.  I followed this forum for quite sometime before I posted so I'm trying my best but the open communication part seems a bit one sided at times (again merely my opinion)

I've heard some people loosely use terms like "HD future proof, being prepared for the future, etc. " which to makes sense in a general way... not only to have people scoff at it 2 seconds like and try to discredit that way of thinking.  (yet 24P till I die and other DVX catch phases I've seen seem generally acceptable/encouraged :)... that's cool with me too )

Your buisiness logic seems to make $en$e to me.  Unfortunately it seems to be precieved as unethical.

To Jeff Chanler, one side of me see where you are coming from but the practical buisiness side of me says... well you can do it that way if you like... Good luck.  I seriously wish you all the success in the world.  I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm serious.  I just think that you probably are doing work stuff for way cheaper than you may need to be... which is great too... that is usually how competitive small business develops and takes over... but even then you still got to be buiz saavy and able to play devils advocate with yourself and be able to see it from both sides...(if that makes any sense)

Chuck S right... if you can charge more, do!  If you can't don't.  If people here in general don't think you can/should charge more because of what you think the consumer knows and because of what is available to them... I agree choose new clients.  (chances are that is how many of us / people started workin solo, thought they could do it themselves started their own buiz... "I'm not paying him that.. I could do that myself"!)  Nodoby wants to be working hard for nothing... but yes it is a fine line the price game.  (Panasonic, Canon and Sony play it about every 3 - 4 years with the release of each new cam.)   and even then... sometimes it's not about price... as the creative service can tell you that first hand... hollywood to be exact.  Even art... a painted picture is worth a thousand words... it could also be worth one million dollars?!!?  Did it cost that to paint it?  Picaso creates something and it's instantly a masterpeice... is the specific tool he used important?... yes and no... it's all relative.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=Michael_Bott link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=15#25 date=01/31/05 at 00:18:23]I guess if you're in the wedding video business - or any business where your workflow is to a certain degree 'transparent' to your client - having the best you can afford at any given moment is excellent leverage to maximizing what you can charge. I absolutely get that making that buisiness work can be about how your whole business appears,... [/quote]
Nothing personal at all Micheal and not tyring to start anything but to me comments like this are a bit uncalled for.  If I had to assume I would say a DVX100a owner and potentially thinking about the FX1/ Z1 but may wait till "the new panasonic" comes out just cause.  (sorry to make a statement like that but it's kind of what you just did... put someone in a category rather than take their word for it cause you haven't experienced what they have.)
[quote author=Michael_Bott link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=15#25 date=01/31/05 at 00:18:23]
However, the point stands about whether there is a noticable difference in the final product - for many of us, our customers are just seeing the product, not how it was made.
[/quote]
I don't get this still cause to me this says "my clients pull out magnifying glasses, we analyse it thourougly and if it isn't 24P from the DVX shot properly, it's not what were looking for"  (again generalizing like you kind of done to Chuck S)... I was communicated to very thouroughly by moderators and posters alike, that this attitude it not accepted here.  I'm still not sure how one is supposed to be able to express themselves without feeling like it's going to precieved as starting trouble if this is the undiscussed rule.  I think a lot of these debates seem to steer from the top to potentially HD and buisiness eithics.  Sorry to comment further... this thread should really be about the Jody clip... perhaps a new thread should be started regarding HD miconception and effective HD buisiness strategy... yes no?
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=0#14 date=01/30/05 at 15:35:32]

If HD is available to us to produce with, the last thing I really care about is the distribution medium... it's the final piece of the puzzle and it's a piece that will constantly be changing.  [/quote]

You are so right. I can't understand people arguing against HDV or HD with "Yes, but my final product is DVD and HDV is softer, loosing resolution etc... after downrez " If it is soft, than they do something wrong. They don't have the equipment or knowledge to do it right. They forget that most of the DVD's are comming from film. Film has much higher resolution than 720x576(480) .

Many tv-shows was produced on film. Why should people use film in tv production if they can only broadcast it on tv and release it on VHS/DVD? The customers hasn't got any 16/35mm filmprojector at home. Yes but film is 24 frames - I hear all the time. 24 frames isn't so great, frame-recording is great, but only 24 frames isn't. That's why film-world wants 48 frames which gives you more smoother motion on film.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=SergejIvanovits link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=15#29 date=01/31/05 at 05:25:21]
Yes but film is 24 frames - I hear all the time. 24 frames isn't so great, frame-recording is great, but only 24 frames isn't. That's why film-world wants 48 frames which gives you more smoother motion on film.
[/quote]

Sergej . . .

You were doing fine, getting along, contributing, being part of the conversation . . .

And then you had fall back on bashing people for wanting 24p again . . .

:-/

One more time . . . no one is against HD. But we want 24p . . . 24p . . . 24p . . .
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=30#30 date=01/31/05 at 05:34:49]


And then you had fall back on bashing people for wanting 24p again . . .

[/quote]

If someone is bashing you than it must be you. You are bashing yourself with this 24p, film and whatever it is.

Film and 24 frames/s are not the same as 24p video.
And one more time. We want 48f/s and 1080/50p - hehe
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Nothing personal at all Micheal and not tyring to start anything but to me comments like this are a bit uncalled for. If I had to assume I would say a DVX100a owner and potentially thinking about the FX1/ Z1 but may wait till "the new panasonic" comes out just cause. (sorry to make a statement like that but it's kind of what you just did... put someone in a category rather than take their word for it cause you haven't experienced what they have.)
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What did I say ??? Sorry if I offended - not intended at all ... I agreed with Chuck and I do have experience with dealing with clients in that way (never earned that much though!!) - that's why I got his point.

mystified ...
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

You are so right. I can't understand people arguing against HDV or HD with "Yes, but my final product is DVD and HDV is softer, loosing resolution etc... after downrez " If it is soft, than they do something wrong. They don't have the equipment or knowledge to do it right. They forget that most of the DVD's are comming from film. Film has much higher resolution than 720x576(480) .
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It was as much a suprise to me as anyone to read in Barry and Jarred's side by side of the DVX/XL2/F1 that there was no advantage in the F1's resolution by the time the footage got down to DVD. And I think they do have the equipment and knowledge to "do it right". Up until that point, I too was assuming that I was going to have to go the HDV route NOW in order to keep my work competetive. My understanding at this time is that nobody's going to notice the difference in MY work until 5 years down the line. Nobody is debunking HDV - I'm certainly not - all I'm saying is that for me and for some others there's no rush.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=SergejIvanovits link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=30#31 date=01/31/05 at 05:54:44]
Film and 24 frames/s are not the same as 24p video.  [/quote]

WE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FILM AND 24p.

And one more time. We want 48f/s and 1080/50p - hehe
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If that's what YOU want, that's fine.  But don't confuse it with what WE want.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Jimerson, you are bashing me again with your ntsc 24p/60i in i a Sony HDV 1080i interlaced section. I'm not interested.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Serge, you have a knack for turning an intelligent exchange of thoughts into childish gibberish. What's the point?
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

I just think that you probably are doing work stuff for way cheaper than you may need to be...
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Quite the opposite is true. I am being well paid for what I do. My point was, I know my clients, and I'm npt going to be able to bleed more money out of them by offering something they do not want. As I have stated before, I have no need for HDV, and I think that I have a lot of company here. If you can make money with it honestly, go for it. All I have tried to do is point out that it profits no one to jump in and buy all the latest technology that comes along. When something comes along that you need and fits iinto your plans, and accomplishes what you wanted it to (like 24p has for so many on this forum), then by all means buy it. But don't do it out of desperation or fear that you're going to be left behind without it, because that idea is asinine. You're basically giving in to the notion that the equipment alone is what makes the production, and that has never been true.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=Michael_Bott link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=30#33 date=01/31/05 at 06:24:56]
And I think they do have the equipment and knowledge to "do it right". [/quote]
Vegas or Snell & Wilcox product? Vegas, right? It's not the right equipment. And Berry's goal was to make a test for a regular DVXuser with 1 DVX and Vegas, not for a pro productions company.

Btw. Jody Eldred said - CF25 mode was used to output 50i media, transferred to Sony HDCam. He didn't mentioned how. My guess is that they used the Z1U just like camera head and recorded the Component out in realtime.
 
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