Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Ranger

Ranger

Well-known member
Douglas Spotted Eagle posted a Sundance interview of Jody Eldred regarding the Z1's performance. I don't know what the rules are regarding posting links to other forum websites, but the wmv clip can be seen at DV Info Net (Titled: "For those still wondering about the HVR-Z1").

I was pleasantly surprised to see the Z1 fully decked out with a chroziel matte box and focus assist.

Anyway, it's worth a look.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Wow. Some pretty high comments from a pro. Almost makes me want one! ... ;)

Thanks for the link (well sort of link)
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

yes,
I thought the same thing....
now I really want one.
I wonder if he got paid from Sony...
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

That's an amazing endorsment. I know that he states that he is not a paid spokesman or sales person for Sony, that statement might have a little more credibility if he wasn't standing in front of the SONY BOOTH!

I for one would sure like to see an edited segment with content from the Z1, F900 and 35mm intercut. 8)
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

As an owner of an FX1 and soon to have a ZU1 in my possession, Jody just confirms what I already know. That Sony have produced something outstanding for the money and there is no going back for me to SD cameras.

I'm like a little boy waiting for Christmas to come! ;D
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

I too get really excited when I see an endorsement like that. I begin to wonder if my DVX days are numbered. But - shoot me down if I'm wrong - this guy is outputting to BROADCAST, yes? If so he has every reason to be excited but for most of us, surely our output is to DVD at best? Now, my understanding of Barry and Jarred's excellent comparison of the DVX, XL2 and HVR-F1 is that when it comes down to output, there is no advantage to having the extra resolution of HDV a la F1/Z1 if the final destination of your footage is DVD. Barry, Jarred (welcome to England, by the way :)) - that's right, isn't it?

So, before I/we rush off to buy the Z1 - (plus new HDV player, monitor, plug-ins, new set of Mattebox step rings, etc, etc) we should just take stock of what we will be really getting: footage that makes our eyes water in the edit suite but output that is no better (and possibly worse) than what we are already achieving with our DVXs. Would that be worth the expense - just for a nice-to-have?

I am in no way trying to debunk the Z1 or F1. They are clearly great cameras. I am just trying to steady my nerves and prevent myself from getting carried away. Believe me, if I knew that the resolution showed through to final DVD output my DVDx would be on Ebay in a shot. I have a particular project coming up that would really benefit from that extra res - but unless my CUSTOMERS are going to see a difference, why spend the money?

Cheers

Michael
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=Michael_Bott link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=0#5 date=01/30/05 at 04:15:06]... there is no advantage to having the extra resolution of HDV a la F1/Z1 if the final destination of your footage is DVD. [/quote]

I would agree with that 100% - An exciting camera for some, and not needed for others. I think it's phenomenal how technology is progressing in this price range... Just not needed for me right now. Good to know when it is needed it's going to be there. ;)
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Personally, I think it’s great that the FX1 is beginning to get rave revues, hopefully HDV will only get better. However, I think the comparison between the FX1 and DVX are pointless.

If you are trying to decide which of these camera’s to purchase, obviously you need to evaluate your current needs and choose which is right for you. But looking into the near future, it is getting difficult to justify purchasing a SD camera when HD-DVD is beginning to roll out.

I know that people will argue that it will be years before we see any significant market penetration [of coarse that is what pundits said about the roll out of DVD and they couldn’t have been more wrong]. You do not have to be clairvoyant, according to this endorsement the FX1 footage down converts to SD very well – so with the FX1 you can do both. You can’t say that about the DVX.

The evaluation seems to come down to one simple fact – either you need 24P or you don’t. ;)
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=ChuckS link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=0#7 date=01/30/05 at 09:43:45][of coarse that is what pundits said about the roll out of DVD and they couldn’t have been more wrong].[/quote]
The pundits were indeed surprised at how fast DVD was adopted.  DVD has been the fastest-adopted consumer electronics format in history.

Of course, it still took SIX YEARS for it to reach 50% market penetration.

HDTV has already been on the market for 7 years, and it's still wallowing at around 7% market penetration.  And a lot of that penetration is, imho, bogus, because the TV's are in people's houses for reasons OTHER than being HD.  They bought 'em because they were the only sets offered in the size they wanted, for example, or they wanted a thin screen (and it just so happened to also be HD)... i.e., they didn't set out to buy HD, HD just came with what they bought.  Obviously some people set out to buy HD, but I'd find it interesting to find out what percentage of the HD sets out there were bought specifically because they're HD... I'd bet it's less than half.

So, we'll see how fast blu-ray and HD-DVD catch on.  They could very well turn out to be this generation's S-VHS and LaserDisc and SACD (better formats that went nowhere), or they could be the next DVD.  But I'll go on record as saying it'll be YEARS before there's any significant market penetration of blu-ray or HD-DVD players.  Watch the trade figures, SD DVDs will dominate HD DVD unit movie sales until at least 2010.

(note: this is not to say that I don't want HD to triumph -- I'd love to wake up tomorrow morning and find that the entire world has converted to HD. All I'm saying is, it ain't happening at *nearly* the pace people want to believe it is).
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

I do agree that HD may be too much for consumers at this time.

The additional cost through cable plus the new monitor is asking alot from consumers. In addition, I don't think that a majority of consumers are able to differentiate between HD and SD.

I will be interested to see the results of a HD-DVD and see the difference myself.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Guys, do remember that when he says it's a "real easy camera to use," he's saying it from the perspective of a *very* seasoned DP.

Most of you realize this, but just making sure there's no one who expects to be able to pull it out of the box and have instant gorgeousness and gorgeosity without learning how to use it.   :)

("He SAID it was 'real easy' . . . ")
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

of coarse that is what pundits said about the roll out of DVD and they couldn’t have been more wrong
Click to expand...

The big difference being that DVD did not require the consumer to go out and buy a very expensive monitor and tuner. And even with that advantage, as Barry pointed out, it still took six years to get fifty percent market penetration.

This is undoubtedly going to be a long process. It will happen, but it won't be today, tomorrow, or the next day. Think in years. But the upside to a slow conversion, for those of us that do this for a living, is that we can milk every penny out of our SD cams before we are forced to upgrade (unless Panasonic does what I'm hoping and I get the new cam fever!).
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

Hi Barry,

There are a couple of things you should keep in mind regarding DVD statistics, in 2003 there were 53M DVD players in the U.S., which generated more than $11B in software (content) sales. That was more than the broadcast and movie industries combined for the same year. In 2004, DVD hardware sales rose to approximately 63M and generated almost $24B in software sales. That is a huge compounded annual growth rate (CAGR).

Hopefully you remember when DVD first arrived in ’97 the pundits said that it would not sell because you could not record with it and consumers would not pay for better image quality – can I get a really big WRONG here? Now they are saying the same thing about HD and they are just as wrong. This is not the same as S-VHS, for anyone who has seen real HD there is no comparison. In fact as inflammatory as this might be 1080P is quickly surpassing the quality of film [but that is a whole other argument.]

The reason HD-DVD is both important and different regarding the deployment of HD is that it provides a predictable future wealth thanks to the explosive growth of DVD, resulting in almost 100% of all movies being mastered for DVD release being re-mastered in HD and down converted for SD-DVD. The cost of HD-DVD hardware will come down quickly, the price of HD has come down significantly, so much so that the number one requested gift this past holiday was 16x9 flat panel displays.

There is no doubt that consumers are confused and think that if they purchase a 16x9 SD flat panel that is HD capable they are purchasing HD when they really are not. Nevertheless, the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) projects that 8.5 million or approximately 30% of all TV’s sold in 2005 will consist of HD sets, at which point there will be over 20 million cumulative HDTV's sold. With the recent drop in price, HDTV sales could top 12 million additional units sold by the end of this year.

Once again, the biggest impediment to the deployment of HD-DVD, much like the VCR, is the short sightedness of the MPAA. The MPAA has called for the closing of the "analog hole" by forcing the consumer electronics industry to either remove component video outputs from high definition DVD players or, if those analog outputs are included, impose image constraint that would reduce high definition video resolution to no better than current DVD. This would make existing HD-ready displays that only have component analog video or RGB-HV inputs for external sources useless for viewing high definition content stored on either of the two new disc formats. This unconscionable measure would negate over sixteen billion dollars of aggregate investments made by consumers. But not to worry, they couldn’t stop the deployment of the VCR and their attempts to impose copyright technology in HD-DVD players will have the same result.

On the horizon, growth will be driven by the broadening demand for the new optical disc (HD-DVD) formats designed for use with high-definition video content. Released in late 2004, 60,000 HD-DVD players were sold in three months and by 2014 it is projected that 103 million – or 79% of American television households will own some form of HDDVD player. These forms consist of component and portable HD-DVD players and video game consoles. Because HD-DVD is in its relevant infancy and is only being purchased by early adopters, it is difficult to say what percentage of the U.S. population will purchase the product in the next few years. In any event, the market is clearly poised for dramatic growth. If the growth of DVD and rapid deployment of HD channels and acceptance of HD capable televisions is an indicator, unit sales should grow at a rate that exceeds that of its smaller brethren – standard definition DVD.

All of you say that it took six years to reach 50% market penetration as though that's a long time. As Barry pointed out it is the fastest growing consumer electronics in history. Besides, even if there was only one DVD player sold but over $20B in content sales (far more than the $8.9B of the movie industry) it would just mean that who ever owned it would be my new best friend. I'm confused, I would think that everyone in this forum would be excited about this type of growth. It would certainly provide all of us with more revenue opportunities, in much the same way that the VCR did for independent film makers.

I'm not advocating that anyone run out and sell the DVX in favor of any HD camera but just like Barry is willing go on record I'll do the same and say that HD-DVD will grow at a much faster rate than the overall movie industry over the next two years... ::)
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=ChuckS link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=0#12 date=01/30/05 at 14:09:22]
Hopefully you remember when DVD first arrived in ’97 the pundits said that it would not sell because you could not record with it and consumers would not pay for better image quality – can I get a really big WRONG here?  
[/quote]

But there's SO MUCH more to DVD than just better image quality. I think I sold a dozen people on it just by demonstrating the SOUND. In fact, few people cite the image difference as the reason they prefer DVD; most cite the convenience factor (no rewinding; easier navigation; smaller size), the sound, and the special features as the reason they upgraded. It was a quantum leap improvement over VHS even if you count everything BUT image quality. THAT'S what put DVD in all those homes. HDTV doesn't offer that kind of leap above what people already have.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=sony;num=1107056779;start=0#8 date=01/30/05 at 12:27:52]
So, we'll see how fast blu-ray and HD-DVD catch on.  They could very well turn out to be this generation's S-VHS and LaserDisc and SACD (better formats that went nowhere), or they could be the next DVD.  But I'll go on record as saying it'll be YEARS before there's any significant market penetration of blu-ray or HD-DVD players.  Watch the trade figures, SD DVDs will dominate HD DVD unit movie sales until at least 2010.
[/quote]

I doubt that both formats will turn out to be "like the S-VHS or laser disc"... but I think one of them may go that direction... only time will tell...

From what I gather, 24P HD is really what it is going to take to make most people here hop on the HD bandwagon. You got to give Sony perks for the FX1 and Z1 regardless of whether or not you actually care to use them... the release of these cams put pressure on Canon, Panasonic and all the other players to come up with counter models to try to get their foot in the door and ultimately dominate a chunck of the market (regardless of percentage). I'm a little surprized to hear from most here that it will take them years to consider HD due to the output medium. When DVD was concieved, I wanted to throw my VCR out the window...(but I didn't cause at the time DVD players were about 5 times the price of VCR's!!) The thing I don't remember hearing very often after the release of DVD is "VHS is good enough for me."... I remember hearing "I want DVD"... and now DVD is a reality. 5 years to me is not really that far away. I think with the pace change of technology now... to expect a product to last as long as VHS did just won't happen in our lifetime. Since the 1995 - 96 era...(the year of the internet...) technology climbs way faster than it did previously. Email is now a requirement at the work place, forums like this exist, and technology evolves so fast you can't keep up. Will HD-DVD and Blue Ray be 50 maket value in 2010? I doubt it... I don't think we have even concieved of the format that will. I do think this... most of us here fall into the consumers/high end user category. If HD is available to us to produce with, the last thing I really care about is the distribution medium... it's the final piece of the puzzle and it's a piece that will constantly be changing. Weither it be optical disc or data file streamed from a server, highest source res for the dollar value isn't a bad thing. If it's going to take a cam with 24P HD to get you there so be it, but once it's available in this price range, I seriously doubt that people will be selling the concept of using the DVX over the new 24P HD cam... regarless of the final output medium. Why would you?

Note on the Jody Eldred clip... some pretty straight up comments! True, he does make it sound easy but nice to see a pro like him draw the comparisons.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

It would certainly provide all of us with more revenue opportunities
Click to expand...

In what way? What opportunity does it provide that doesn't already exist for me? My clients are looking for lower prices, not higher, and that is the only additional revenue opportunity that this provides: higher fees. And that comes at the cost of a large investment on my part, just to be able to do it (and that is after all the components are in place, which they are not at the present moment). And the reason I think we're looking at at least five years is, that consumers are NOT clamoring for this format. I'm not against HD. It looks nice. But I'm running a business, and I need more than speculation, hype, and excitement about a camera on my part, to get me to invest in something that has marginal value for the immediate future. It does nothing for my business that I can't do with the equipment that I currently own. When that fact changes, I will be on board, but not a moment sooner.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (re: Z1)

It was a quantum leap improvement over VHS even if you count everything BUT image quality. THAT'S what put DVD in all those homes
Click to expand...
That's what I think as well.  It was the convenience that was the major sales factor -- plus indestructibility.  Sound was a big boost too, although HD offers a similar boost in sound quality for broadcast.

79% of homes by 2014?  That sounds about right.

I think all we're saying is that that's a LONG time away.  I mean, people are saying "jump on the HDV bandwagon or you'll be left behind" like there's some sort of immediacy.  And all we're saying is... it'll be years and years before HD has any real relevance as far as sales and market penetration.  And the way things go, HDV will have come, flashed in its pan, and gone before 2010 hits, and we'll be on to S-HDV and 1080/24p cameras and such.  So why spend a lot of money that you don't have on technology that you don't need, just so you can be prepared for a future that's years away?  Were people who bought S-VHS cameras really that much better off?  Are they "future-proofed"?

I'm thinking that if you need to get into HD, why plink around with 1080i HDV when (hopefully) we'll have real, genuine DVCPRO-HD here in a few months, and it's almost a given that JVC will deliver a 1080/24p 50mbps HDV2-type system as well?  Can someone explain what the big rush is?  
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

If HD is available to us to produce with, the last thing I really care about is the distribution medium
Click to expand...

Except that to be a significant player in the market for video producers, there has to be a viable distribution format in place. Just as an example of how long it can take to get consumers to make a switch: I have done a lot of high school dance recitals over the years. Until this fall I was still having more requests for VHS than I was for DVD. When I priced them both the same this past fall, I was able to get it up to 75% DVD. A lot of the girls said that their families don't own DVD players. And this is a relatively afluent area. I've asked why, and they said it's because their parents either aren't that interested in TV, or they have large libraries of movies on VHS. Obviously that will play itself out soon, because the only way they will be able to add to their libraries is to go DVD. But I do think consumers are getting frustrated about seeing what they own becoming obsolete and having to invest in new technologies. That's why I expect some pretty stiff resistance to changeover.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Can someone explain what the big rush is?
Click to expand...

I think I've figured out what it is , Barry. It's the rush you get when you get the latest toy ;D

Seriously, it's the question I would like answered. Waiting seems to be the prudent thing to do, unless you have a legitimate business demand, and I doubt many of us do. I know I don't. I guess the reason I keep speaking up about this is that I remember a time that I jumped up and bought the latest technology because it was so cool and the thing to do. But it wasn't long before I realized that I spent money that I shouldn't have on something that did nothing to enhance my business or my skills. It leaves you with a very sick feeling, and the sad part is that you're eitheer stuck, or you're going to take a sizable loss when you sell it to get what you really need.
 
Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Re: Jody Eldred interview at Sundance (Z1)

Yep.

I also notice that Jody said it's really inexpensive to get sorted with a Z1. Only $7000 to get the camera and mattebox, as well as follow focus! LOL! I know it's HD, but let's be honest, the majority of indies could never afford that kind of money off the hoof anyway. Even low/mid level corporates aren't going to dive out and spend that kind of money for an unknown quantity.

This brings me on to something else. Focus. I've been saying for a while now that having HD will show up ALL the mistakes that indies and low budget low skilled guys have been able to get away with in the past with SD. That guy Jody goes out of his way to say how absolutely critical focus is with HD. He was able to shoot on the fly with the Z1 by slapping it on auto. Great. But if he was on the ground with more time and control would he choose the Z1 or the F900?
 
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