Japanese 7D - menus locked to Japanese only?

commanderspike

commanderspike

Carbonite Member
I am more familiar with the Panasonic GH1 but do Canon follow the same tactic as Sony & Panasonic, locking down the language selection in their Japanese domestic models to Japanese only?

Also is the 7D switchable between PAL and NTSC frame rates (i.e. 25p and 24p) in the menus, or locked (as one would expect) to one or the other.

I will be in Japan before the year is out and would like to pick up some gear :)

It's a lot cheaper than our rip off UK prices!!
 
I wouldn't expect Canon to do that. To my understanding, there is only one model of the camera for the entire world. There's a setting that allows you to switch between PAL and NTSC modes. Compare that with the GH1, which has separate PAL and NTSC models; and on top of that, there's a special Euro version that limits recording time to 30 minutes. I've heard that the reason why Canon doesn't span recording across multiple 4GB files is specifically because they wanted to avoid the EEC tax on A/V devices that record longer than 30 minutes. When the 5D is set to SD video mode, 4GB = 30 minutes. Since HD uses a much higher bit rate, that's why the recording limit happens to be 12 minutes in HD mode. So, basically, blame the EEC and Canon's laziness ("business plan") for the fact that no version of the 5D records more than 12/30 minutes at a time.

That all goes to show you that Canon isn't interested in making cameras locked to specific regions. And if I'm not mistaken, the manual controls firmware was first posted on Canon Japan's Web site, yet it worked for everybody everywhere.
 
Man...I starting to have a lot more respect for Canon. That's the way things should be done with all camera products.
 
Switchable between PAL and NTSC frame rates? Wow. That's great.

And exactly how it should be.

7D works out at £1100 body only in Taiwan. Available in 7 days. (Rings girlfriend...)
 
but you guys have to understand buying from japan would also mean no money for your local canon & your country's economy
 
dcloud said:
but you guys have to understand buying from japan would also mean no money for your local canon & your country's economy
Click to expand...

bleh, I'd rather support overseas Canon as our Canon like to rip us off. And our economy is doing quite fine compared to everyone else.
 
Commanderspike where did you find it? tw.auctions.yahoo.com or in a store? On Yahoo they say it will be available on 15/10 for 56 900NT (~1756$) which is a lot I suppose, because GH1 costs here 36 000NT (~1111$) while about 1500$ in US. I think we should wait a bit, because that pre-order price seems to be a scam : /
 
commanderspike said:
7D works out at £1100 body only in Taiwan. Available in 7 days. (Rings girlfriend...)
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You have a girlfriend in Taiwan? That's simultaneously awesome and unfortunate.

The one downside of importing is that Canon's warranties are localized. So if your Taiwanese 7D breaks and needs service in the warranty period, you'll have to send it back to Taiwan.
 
ydgmdlu said:
You have a girlfriend in Taiwan? That's simultaneously awesome and unfortunate.

The one downside of importing is that Canon's warranties are localized. So if your Taiwanese 7D breaks and needs service in the warranty period, you'll have to send it back to Taiwan.
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LOL
Yeah don't get the extended warranty unless you really like her or you'll be stuck with her for atleast 3 years :(
 
Johnny Cola said:
Yeah don't get the extended warranty unless you really like her or you'll be stuck with her for atleast 3 years :(
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Imagine marrying a (very) long-distance girlfriend just to get warranty benefits on your gear!


Yes, I know that's a pretty stupid idea...
 
Johnny Cola said:
LOL
Yeah don't get the extended warranty unless you really like her or you'll be stuck with her for atleast 3 years :(
Click to expand...

So am I right in thinking if my girlfriend breaks down outside of warranty, I don't get a replacement? :grin:

Yep Snicky, found it for 56,000NT on Yahoo and I think thats a Japanese import model. When I go to Taiwan in November I will also also go to Japan to pick up some cameras, and save a bundle. So maybe I'll hold off for a bit.... good point. The Taiwanese importer guy on Yahoo is marking that price up from Japan but yet still that price 56,000NT in Taiwan is attractive compared to the UK. It works out at £1100 instead of the UK price of £1400.

Also the GF1 in Japan is crazy cheap... £560 with 20mm F1.7 lens and sure to go down like the GH1 did. The GH1 in Japan works out at £700 now.
 
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ydgmdlu said:
I wouldn't expect Canon to do that. To my understanding, there is only one model of the camera for the entire world. There's a setting that allows you to switch between PAL and NTSC modes. Compare that with the GH1, which has separate PAL and NTSC models; and on top of that, there's a special Euro version that limits recording time to 30 minutes. I've heard that the reason why Canon doesn't span recording across multiple 4GB files is specifically because they wanted to avoid the EEC tax on A/V devices that record longer than 30 minutes. When the 5D is set to SD video mode, 4GB = 30 minutes. Since HD uses a much higher bit rate, that's why the recording limit happens to be 12 minutes in HD mode. So, basically, blame the EEC and Canon's laziness ("business plan") for the fact that no version of the 5D records more than 12/30 minutes at a time.

That all goes to show you that Canon isn't interested in making cameras locked to specific regions. And if I'm not mistaken, the manual controls firmware was first posted on Canon Japan's Web site, yet it worked for everybody everywhere.
Click to expand...
I've heard that the 4GB file size limit is due to the FAT32 file system being chosen to satisfy the MAC users. This explaination seems much more likely.

If MACs did not exist, then the current standard NTFS file system would have been chosen and thus would be no recording limit.
 
Pepster said:
I've heard that the 4GB file size limit is due to the FAT32 file system being chosen to satisfy the MAC users. This explaination seems much more likely.

If MACs did not exist, then the current standard NTFS file system would have been chosen and thus would be no recording limit.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure FAT32 is more compatible than NTFS, especially when it comes to Macs. But you can't blame OSX. It has it's own file system which handles large files just like NTFS and in fact does it a lot better. NTFS is a very old technology which came in with Windows NT.

FAT32 is cross Windows/Mac compatible and isn't a Apple technology or a Microsoft technology, it just works.

Why is the bit rate so high on the 5D / 7D? Could it be lowered without sacrificing too much quality and extending the recording time, with smaller files sizes?
 
Pepster said:
I've heard that the 4GB file size limit is due to the FAT32 file system being chosen to satisfy the MAC users. This explaination seems much more likely.

If MACs did not exist, then the current standard NTFS file system would have been chosen and thus would be no recording limit.
Click to expand...
Who told you that?

First of all, all commonly available flash media (except for maybe solid-state hard drives) are formatted as FAT32 by default.

Second of all, why would a still camera have any need to format a memory card as NTFS? These cameras are still cameras first, so they have no reason to go with a proprietary file system just for the sake of a bonus feature.

Third, why didn't Canon implement file spanning? The Panasonic GH1 also uses FAT32-formatted memory cards, yet in the AVCHD modes it can record all the way up to the capacity of the card. In other words, it can automatically span a single clip across multiple 4 GB files. Canon could've done this, but didn't.

Finally, how do you explain the fact that in standard definition video mode, the time limit for each clip is under 30 minutes? Canon could've easily decreased the bit rate and gotten more time out of the 4 GB. Standard definition DivX/XviD movies manage great quality at around 200 KB per second; surely 2.1 MB per second is overkill? The video in SD mode has a resolution of 640x480. That's one-third the number of pixels in 720p. So even if we were being generous, the 7D's 480p60 mode should only need 5.5/3=1.8 MB/s to achieve the same quality of compression as the 720p60 mode. (Keep in mind that the 5D's 1080p30 mode averages 4.8 MB/s, and the SD mode is 480p30, so the numbers should really be 4.8/6.75=0.71 MB/s.)

All of the above shows that the most likely explanation is that Canon decided to prohibit the camera from recording more than 30 minutes per clip (which would classify it as a proper "camcorder" by the European Economic Community and thus subject it to the special tax) by taking advantage of the 4 GB file size limit of FAT32 and neglecting to implement file spanning. Then they worked out the video bit rates from the 4 GB. Canon's codec is somewhat variable bit rate, and the average is 17.3 Mbps (or 24 minutes per clip), which could drop slightly if there is little movement or detail in the shot. The codec probably has a minimum bit rate level, and at that minimum level, the maximum running time per clip probably works out to 30 minutes (or 29 minutes and 59 seconds).

So how else would you explain everything?
 
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commanderspike said:
Pretty sure FAT32 is more compatible than NTFS, especially when it comes to Macs.
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Mac OS X has had built-in read-only NTFS support since version 10.3.1. Mac users really only need read-only access, since the camera can format the memory card.

But you can't blame OSX. It has it's own file system which handles large files just like NTFS and in fact does it a lot better.
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How so? NTFS has fairly sophisticated security/permissions features, and it has the option of compression.

NTFS is a very old technology which came in with Windows NT.
Click to expand...
NTFS has been continuously developed and updated with almost every version of Windows.

FAT32 is cross Windows/Mac compatible and isn't a Apple technology or a Microsoft technology, it just works.
Click to expand...
...which is why memory cards have it as the default file system. FAT32 can be fully utilized by almost every modern operating system.

Why is the bit rate so high on the 5D / 7D? Could it be lowered without sacrificing too much quality and extending the recording time, with smaller files sizes?
Click to expand...
I explained why; it was to avoid the EEC tax. There is no way to change the bit rates.
 
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