It's shipping! And there's a surprise

Terry_Lasater said:
If it's shipping, the surprise must come when you find a retailer with one in stock.
Click to expand...

LAMO!!! too funny

I am shocked at how hard all of this 4K acquisition technology is being doled out to the public especially considering the only content that is truly available in 4K is from people creating their own content with 4K acquision devices. Right now there is little to no 4K content and no wide spread medium for playing back 4K content. Some have pointed to You Tube now offering a 4K compression algo which I guess is indicative the way content is being delivered now and into the forseeable future (internet).

I really liked David Jones math and if you are a professional I guess that is how you have to look at things - The cost of acquiring great images is making camera bodies somewhat expendable. A $3000 invesment means 3 years of use at $125/month which should be pretty easy for any serious shooter to make back no problem. I don't think we are that far off of a 4K Black Magic Camera with better form, global shutter, proper battery solution, better dynamic range, high frame rates etc....for $4000 to $5000. In fact I wouldn't be surpirsed if we saw something like this released by Black Magic at NAB this year. Released being a relative word to mean concept shown and released for shipping with the next year..lol

Interesting times indeed
 
You can hold onto your camera longer than three years. It matters whether it still meets your needs, not whether a better camera has come out. Many of us could probably still make a living today with a DVX100.
 
For me the surprise is how good the 1080 internal recording looks (in my own tests). Sharp, great color, long recording times. I'm pretty sure I will stick to that until 4K is more mainstream.
 
combatentropy said:
You can hold onto your camera longer than three years. It matters whether it still meets your needs, not whether a better camera has come out. Many of us could probably still make a living today with a DVX100.
Click to expand...

well of course, 3 years was just number thrown out as an example that another person used. I don't know that many people who could make a complete living off of a DVX100 but an HVX200 released in 2005 could easily still make most a living today. 9 years is a loooong time by technology standards
 
True North said:
well of course, 3 years was just number thrown out as an example that another person used. I don't know that many people who could make a complete living off of a DVX100 but an HVX200 released in 2005 could easily still make most a living today. 9 years is a loooong time by technology standards
Click to expand...

Depending on your clients I feel like the HVX is too low in detail to really cut it for many applications. What really impresses me is that the chips & lens that are on the 2007 Sony EX1 are still in production for the PMW-200 & PMW-300. To have a camera that is 7 years old, still cut really nicely with cameras that are brand new is kinda crazy.

Though if you need something w/o any rolling shutter picking up a used HVX is dirt cheap these days.
 
combatentropy said:
You think a different-shaped body, XLRs, and maybe an ND filter is $9,000?
Click to expand...

I think a camera with:

6G-SDI Out
Thunderbolt Port
Flip/articulating touchscreen LCD (because you requested the body be redesigned, then the screen needs to move)
Single piece of aluminum Chassis re-design to support SSD bay (we're exceeding the size of a C300 I bet)
Records 4K ProRes (licensing), 1080 ProRes, RAW/CinemaDNG
Full Phantom Powered XLR parts (hardware update for better audio internally)
And maybe an ND wheel specifically matched to the sensors existing or non-existing IR cut/spec
S35ish Global Shutter Sensor


Would cost 10K at least.

Where is this fictional camera's equal right now, that's my question. The closest to it is an F5 or ScarletI believe, or a C300 just on compression alone and the C300 still doesn't give you a 10-bit master quality codec internally.

How could it not cost 10K+ in today's marketplace? Unless someone's willing to just give it away for 5-6K, which by the way I recognize that people really do want companies to just give their hardware away.

I get it.


alaskacameradude said:
As one of the many who has paid for a Sony FS700 and a Odyssey 7Q to get much of that functionality
(although in two devices that must be 'wired' together) and at pretty much the price you stated.......I think
you might be surprised at how many people would pay for that. Not as many as will buy a 2k DSLR of course,
but there is a market there.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are people that would drop 10K+ on said camera, and I personally don't think it would be any kind of unfair to ask for such a price. I'm actually saying how many people that are complaining that they want this or that are willing to pay for it. For the most part, want everything at the cost of nothing.

At that point you need to either switch industries, build your own, or build on top of another design. Pulpfiction's said it two or three times now, what BMD's doing isn't for those people, it's for shooters like me what understand "Hey, here is a sensor in a box, the image it produces is more suited to your tastes in comparison to what's out there, go and attach things to it to make your kind of camera."

It's not for someone that wants an Fs100, AF100, or even an F5/F55 (when it comes to price). I can't figure out why people keep bothering with BMD's hardware instead of moving on?

Actually, I can... because one they're doing certain things that no other manufacturer will do for some time now (ProRes, Uncompressed RAW, open ended Recording Media regardless of how some take it, all in camera without requiring extra recording hardware) and two, well, the image. Just.... don't blame Blackmagic for that, it's likely far easier to go and hound SonyCanoSonic to produce better images and add ProRes+RAW recording in-body versus jacked-out than it is to harp about BMD's hardware...

Trust me when I say these guys do what THEY want, not what anyone thinks the ought to do. lol
 
RE: availability
Just to give you some perspective: back in January, when we still had no idea about when the 4K camera would ship, it was already in the top-10 list of BH bestsellers for pro video cameras. The backorder must be HUGE.
 
combatentropy said:
You think a different-shaped body, XLRs, and maybe an ND filter is $9,000?
Click to expand...

Don't know about $9,000 but think about all the things a different body would need.
1. More circuit boards
2. New and more complicated fabrication and production
3. New components that have to be designed and tested
4. Time spent on layout and design

A major reason Black Magic can do what they do with pricing, is the simple design and a calculated choice to leave certain parts up to the user to determine solutions for.
 
No, if you use your $3000 camera for 2 years, it's $125 a month. If you use it for 3 years, it's $84 a month.

And there is no way in hell I could get away with using a DVX100 to earn a living in 2014.
 
I sold both of my Red cameras because of Blackmagic. I own all three BM bodies & build around them as I please to make the perfect camera. In my opinion they are the most ground breaking thing to happen for indie filmmakers since the 5D Mark II's video recording ability.

I'm now available to afford the luxury of remote/trigger focus on my handheld rig, Defy G2 + remote focus for the Pocket, expensive matte box filters & more.

I don't see how anyone on the planet could complain about the quality you get for the money. I recently cut a micro-budget feature shot on the Scarlet, BMPCC & hacked 5D3. The Scarlet had the best quality of the three, but that being said, the only scenes that 'lacked' something are the scenes where production slowed down because I wanted to re-rig the Scarlet for additional setups. The quality difference is practically negligible.

For my next film, I'll have the BMPC on handheld rig/sticks, BMCC w/ Speedbooster for lowlight & 2nd angle, the BMPCC on a G2, and likely a GH4 for slow mo. All of this together costs less than what I made selling my Scarlet package.
 
Those are amazing numbers Ryan. Quite a revolution for sure these days. Interesting approach. Spending more on support gear will show more in the end product than a little more resoluiton etc...
 
pulpfiction007 said:
Don't know about $9,000 but think about all the things a different body would need.
1. More circuit boards
2. New and more complicated fabrication and production
3. New components that have to be designed and tested
4. Time spent on layout and design

A major reason Black Magic can do what they do with pricing, is the simple design and a calculated choice to leave certain parts up to the user to determine solutions for.
Click to expand...

Put design, development and quality testing costs aside, the rest of the story is pricing theory. Scarcity and differentiation allowed a Canon to put higher prices than their x% markup. Adding to that Canon was price skimming.
 
Last edited:
Ryan Lightbourn said:
For my next film, I'll have the BMPC on handheld rig/sticks, BMCC w/ Speedbooster for lowlight & 2nd angle, the BMPCC on a G2, and likely a GH4 for slow mo. All of this together costs less than what I made selling my Scarlet package.
Click to expand...


Wow, I think you have all the bases covered with that line up. What lenses are you using?
 
Gillvane said:
What lenses are you using?
Click to expand...

MFT (BMPCC);
Panasonic 14mm 2.5
Panasonic 20mm 1.7

S35 (BMCC & BMPC);
Sigma 18-35mm 1.8
Zeiss 50mm 2.0 Macro
Zeiss 25mm 2.8
Nikon 35mm 1.4 (manual version)
Nikon 50mm 1.4 (D series)
Tokina 11-16mm 2.8
Nikon 24-120mm 4.0
Sigma 105mm 2.8 (discontinued version)
 
All that glass!

I've got all three cameras as well and find it a pretty versatile set for ownership, small jobs and personal projects. Best thing to come out of owning BMD cameras for me is getting better at color and post workflow management.

Pocket Cam:
SLR Magic 12/1.6

2.5K/4K (EF/MFT):
Sigma 18-35/1.8
Sigma 50/1.4
Sigma 85/1.4
Tamron 17-50/2.8 VC
Tamron 70-200/2.8 Macro
Tokina 24-70/2.6-2.8 Angenieux (so good)
SLR Magic Anamorphot

and adding a few more soon to match/fill out the range.

Fun stuff.
 
Kholi said:
I think a camera with:

6G-SDI Out
Thunderbolt Port
Flip/articulating touchscreen LCD (because you requested the body be redesigned, then the screen needs to move)
Single piece of aluminum Chassis re-design to support SSD bay (we're exceeding the size of a C300 I bet)
Records 4K ProRes (licensing), 1080 ProRes, RAW/CinemaDNG
Full Phantom Powered XLR parts (hardware update for better audio internally)
And maybe an ND wheel specifically matched to the sensors existing or non-existing IR cut/spec
S35ish Global Shutter Sensor


Would cost 10K at least.
Click to expand...

Just reading through this stuff again and yeah - that seems like my dream camera. And 10k would be my dream price, honestly I'd probably gladly pay the C300/F5 price for it, especially if it had higher framerates. Ideally it would have the dynamic range of the BMCC/BV1 as well....

I appreciate the low budget sensor in a box approach, and have adopted it fully really, and probably spent maybe 10k on second bodies/accessories. But to have one functional piece of kit that doesn't have preamps velcro'd onto battery plates and wires back and forth from the camera, would be amazing

In my eyes, this would be the budget/blackmagic version of the Amira. The first being the budget Red/Alexa option. I'm sure others would gladly pay for those conveniences as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top