FS7: It's a heavy beast !!!

morgan_moore said:
I think the 280/Gh5 combo is interesting.

It reminds me of early 5d days when I operated for a company that had a Z1/5d - this was a good combo because you could 'run around' with the z1 and do the artso interviews with the 5d (using the XLR z1 as a sound recorder)

Having the XLR side of things attached to a video camera and a tiny 'cinematic' package (GH5 and 2 voigtlanders) on top (maybe even literally!) could make an appealing package.

The tendency has been to bin (upgrade from) the 5d/other small cinematic camera in favour of a 'cinematic video camera (s35)' and then find that once built it becomes a 'beast'

I need to consider this route for my small solo shooting package which Im still not happy with.
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I've pushed this idea for years. Basically as soon as the C300 became popular and everyone wanted to use it for EVERYTHING. NO. Let's shoot the meat & potatoes of the show(walk 'n talks, etc.) with ENG cameras with real lenses and then the sit-down's and pretty staged b-roll with the large sensor cams. But everyone wanted the large sensor for everything. Shooting walk 'n talks with large sensor cameras and still lenses(I'm not sure if even the Fuji 19-90 was out yet), sucked! And still sucks! I ended up a few months ago on a C300 shoot(not even my C300) and it was part feature-y, part ENG. Do you know how stupid it is trying to shoot a 'live-to-tape' with a C300 and 24-105?! And the wireless in a hip-pack with XLR's running out to the camera... The producer asked me what camera they should have out there and I didn't even hesitate half a second and said a P2 VariCam. After the 12-14 hour day I was asked would I be interested in doing anymore of them. I paused, grinned and said, "Let me get a good nights sleep and ask me later". I think the producer got the idea.
 
LennyLevy said:
I didn't say "bleeding with a laptop", though I love the image.
When I was at NAB I was told that in order to get at setting for ordinary none log video you had to access the camera with a laptop, that it was not available with the menus.
I'm, much more interested in that camera if its not so limited when not shooting log. What kind of gamma do the scene files use?

Of course I'm quite happy with my colors using my own matrix on the FS7 so that's not a problem. I like how light the EVA1 is though.
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I'm wondering whether you're thinking of trying to make adjustments on one of the tiny Black Magic micro cameras? I think for many controls they can only be adjusted from a switcher or laptop..???

The EVA1 doesn't have as many gamma options as the FS7 - but you do have very full control through the basic menu system. (Of course remember that when in V-Log you do not have access to matrix or 16-channel color level and phase adjustments. V-Log was intended for post-color-correction - same as any of the other cameras' Log flavors.) For Wysiwyg in the EVA1, basically there are two gammas that are similar to hyper-gammas, plus a standard video gamma. I wouldn't want either Log or HLG to be considered Wysiwyg. Using the menu I've made some chroma level, color correction and black level adjustments to their 'hyper-gamma-ish' settings and my 'no color correcting in post' clients are happy with them. White balance is a bit of a different system, where you can save numerous white balances and scroll through them, so it takes a bit of re-thinking. I haven't felt limited by the menus, though switching into HFR settings can be a bit confusing at times!
 
On Set. Its becoming clear to me that I think I was given inaccurate information from a salesman at NAB.
What do you mean about the white balance being trickier. No simple with balance button? Is it convoluted like a DSLR ?
 
OnSet said:
Using the menu I've made some chroma level, color correction and black level adjustments to their 'hyper-gamma-ish' settings and my 'no color correcting in post' clients are happy with them.
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That's interesting to hear. In which direction went your corrections? May I ask if you are willing to share them for testing?
 
JPNola said:
I think it was more that he was met with counter-argument ( and some ridicule ) for having said the fs7 is too heavy for anything but tripod work and for effectively discouraging others from purchasing the camera as a result of that personal opinion.

Of the range of weights of cameras used in production, the fs7 is in the middle of that range. If not on the lighter side of that range, as typically outfitted. An Amira is 9.9 lbs. A DXL is 10 lbs. C700 w/ VF is around 11 lbs. Alexa XT with XR Module, electronic viewfinder and handle is 17.6 lbs. The fs7 w/ ext unit is roughly 8 lbs.

As far as camera rigs go, I consider these to be "heavy beasts":


View attachment 131711

View attachment 131710

Those cameras above can be configured to be more lightweight. But they regularly are not and an Op can expect to be shouldering 15-30lbs when shooting handheld, depending on the lens and accessories.
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It's all about your frame of reference. To you it's a heavy beast. To others is just the normal and a DSLR is a tiny little thing. It doesn't matter though. Give me the choice of a tiny camera and a full size one and I can only have one, I choose full size. Will guarantee better image quality and being easier to use and less gunk and junk stuck on.
 
I'd love to have an ENG rig for certain shoots. Used F800's are cheap now days. But with more demand for 4K, I'd be looking at a Z450 and I just can't swing that. The lenses for it are over $40k.
 
LennyLevy said:
What do you mean about the white balance being trickier. No simple with balance button? Is it convoluted like a DSLR ?
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No, WB is not convoluted like a dslr.
It does have a push button to set WB, But it does require a different mindset.
Today I was shooting BTS of a TV Show with an FS7. For these shoots I'll typically preset a color temp for the studio set (today was 3400K), and then find my two other 'primary' white balances - today was 3900K for the mixed sources where we were doing interviews, and 5500K for some exterior shots. So these went to the White-A and White-B settings on the switch. I knew that as I moved from place to place I would adjust the white balance switch as appropriate - in certain cases without stopping to cut. I also knew that since I was to keep going back to the interview setup, if I needed another white balance I would do that in the White-B setting.
But though the EVA1 allows you to save more white balance memory settings, switching from one to the next is with a control wheel - so it feels less intuitive to me if needing to change while rolling. It's just something that you would need to get used to if you're doing a lot of white balance changes during the course of the day. And the plus factor is that you really can save more than you need, as opposed to always having to remember whether it's more important to save A or B.
 
Clermond said:
That's interesting to hear. In which direction went your corrections? May I ask if you are willing to share them for testing?
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For this question we should move to the Panasonic Cinema Cameras forum on DVXuser. I'm shooting with Sony cameras the rest of this week, but should be able to take a look at the EVA1 in a few days when I prep it for a shoot next week.
 
morgan_moore said:
Once again I find it most odd that I seem to believe that the Eva is very close to being a “pocket able” camera with nearly the capabilities of a full size camera yet you don’t seem to see that or promote it :)

Even the Venice crowd appreciate a small camera head as we see that top end Venice modification is to saw it in half :)
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We promote how petite, light & nimble while still being incredibly capable the EVA1 is all the time. Perhaps the perspective is a bit different in the UK then it is here.
 
morgan_moore said:
I do wonder though if I should/could maybe move to two Eva’s or some other simpler combo than my current “fs7+something else” setup.

I would certainly expect to hear the Eva sales person on the board suggest that that route might work :)
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No Sam, I'm the Cinema Product Manager in the US. That's a lot more than just the EVA1.

As such, I suggest that you need to purchase a VariCam LT and an EVA1 to go with it.
 
LennyLevy said:
MY issue with the EVA is that as far as I understand its really only useable as a "log" type camera and I still shoot a great deal of stuff for people who want WYSIWYG video. Morgan would say ( and has said) I'm old school but that's what many of my clients want. I love the idea of a small camera for a gimbal though and am very drawn right now to an A7III. EVA would be more attractive to me with more usability as a traditional camera.
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Where did you get that idea? The EVA1 has Five preloaded Scene Files or you could roll your own. Two are Cine Style, Two are Broadcast style, and the last is HLG (for HDR work). The controls to adjust these are extensive and you can really create just the look you like.

Or you could shoot in V-Log. But by no means do you have to.
 
LennyLevy said:
Clermont, I only briefly looked at the EVA1 at NAB and from what I understood you needed a laptop to alter setting for WYSIWYG video. That seemed like a huge hassle to me as I change settings all the time when shooting. Granted I always keep the same matrix but I frequently change gamma and with it black level, saturation and occasionally phase and of course color balance.

How do you use a scene file with EVA1 and what parameters can you alter with-out bleeding a laptop?
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You don't need a laptop at all. You can do everything on the camera. Perhaps you are thinking of the EVA ROP, a free app you can load onto a phone or tablet to control the camera remotely over wifi. That's an added convenience, not a requirement.
 
LennyLevy said:
I didn't say "bleeding with a laptop", though I love the image.
When I was at NAB I was told that in order to get at setting for ordinary none log video you had to access the camera with a laptop, that it was not available with the menus.
I'm, much more interested in that camera if its not so limited when not shooting log. What kind of gamma do the scene files use?

Of course I'm quite happy with my colors using my own matrix on the FS7 so that's not a problem. I like how light the EVA1 is though.
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Whoever told this to you was wrong. All controls are available on the camera.
 
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