F35: It may be simpler than we thought to get Tally Light with External Recorders...

Ed, do you know if that will trigger SDI record? I know that nothing lights up unless the right unit is docked. Sony built in this safety feature so that the camera doesn't record unless everything checks out as working. I assume it's for insurance purposes. Don't want the camera not recording in a multimillion $ production.

Does anyone have one of these triggers they can test out, see if the camera will fire up the SDI record flag?
 
Fun story: that function was added to the F35 after the Superman Returns mishap with the Genesis (precursor to the F35). On the Genesis the menus on the camera head and the recorder completely didn't interact and the communication was minimal. Even with the F35 and the F65 the cameras and the recorders were built in separate factories. Superman Returns was one of the very first productions to shoot on Geneis. At lunch on the first day they went to check some footage and discovered that they had been recording bars all morning. So ony decided to improve the communication between camera & recorder with the F35.
 
rbirnbaum said:
Ed, do you know if that will trigger SDI record? I know that nothing lights up unless the right unit is docked. Sony built in this safety feature so that the camera doesn't record unless everything checks out as working. I assume it's for insurance purposes. Don't want the camera not recording in a multimillion $ production.

Does anyone have one of these triggers they can test out, see if the camera will fire up the SDI record flag?
Click to expand...

IIRC I tested this out with the Odyssey back when I had a F35. I ordered the connector online and built a cable myself. It is actually fairly easy to test as all you have to do to trigger the F35 is to short the remote pin with the ground pin (I may be remembering that wrong, there were some wiring diagrams posted here or maybe in the user manual so please double check before trying testing anything). It would trigger the tally lights and quiet operation of the fans, there maybe some settings in the F35 that need to be set to allow the unit to trigger without having a recorder docked.

The issues I had were that one the trigger has to be a toggle switch and not a momentary switch, the trigger only is enable while the wires are shorted and that the F35 does apparently send trigger signals over SDI but the odyssey was not able to detect them. Apparently it was intented for allowing the F35 to trigger the SRW-1 when it was not docked to the camera and uses a proprietary sdi signal.

Since the odyssey has the ability to output a voltage over its remote connection when recording is enabled and that is used to light up the LED on the trigger cable you can purchase for it I was going to attempt to use that current to trigger the F35. My thinking was when the odyssey was recording it would output a current that I would pass to a relay that would then be used to trigger the F35. I was never able to get this to work though, it appears that the current was just too small and I wasn't able to get a hold of a relay sensitive enough to activate.

I do recall also trying to trigger both the Odyssey and the F35 at the same time with a cable that basically split off to both but it didn't work. I could trigger the F35 but the Odyssey wouldn't trigger, I believe the the current coming from the F35 was causing issues, the fact that the trigger needed to be a toggle might have been an issue as well but I don't recall now.

I am sure this is something that can be done, the Odyssey does output a voltage when recording is active to light up an LED on its trigger cable and that voltage could be detected and used to trigger the F35 but I never went that far. Please test out for your selves though, tt has been a while and I could be mistaken but that is my recollection of how my testing went.
 
Another thing that I found was the F35 could be triggered using a momentary switch only with a recorder docked and had to be a toggle switch without. Something to consider when looking for a trigger.
 
Sounds doable with toggle switch. Not opposed to it. Maybe something very old school. Rerouting the wiring and maybe popping it through the LDS port which no one uses. Right under the lens. Easy location. If it gave tally record light that would be fantastic.

I have triggered external recorders via SDI using a docked recorder. All the Odyssey, PIXE5 and BM VA triggered via the IF box or Monitor outs. So something is coming out of the camera. Question is, if there is no docked recorder and we use the toggle switch, will it get the SDI flag out? Should be an easy test. Couple cables, one of these switches... I’ll give it a shot when I have time.
 
Ribirnbaum,

Very interested in you discoveries. I am setting up a leica r mount for one of my f35’s, and plan to use it for a project. Being able to trigger fans/recorder with the same switch/buttone would be a godsend.

And if i head to NYC, i’ll bring the R35 (Leica F35) with me.
 
This is an interesting discussion! Thanks to everyone for their input.
I've been attempting to trigger a record SDI flag from the F23 to my SR-R1 by simply shorting that 24v trigger pin to ground, and whilst it does turn the tally light on, there doesn't seem to be much else that happens.
With the settings in camera set to "recorder" the tally comes on and SR-R1 confirms that an acceptable SDI trigger source is connected, but no actual recording starts.
So perhaps I'm doing something wrong or the F23 still expects a docked recorder to actually make things happen, in line with what Mitch discussed.
Haven't tried with a proper run/stop but I wouldn't think it would work any differently to just holding the trigger pin to GND.
 
helweg said:
This is an interesting discussion! Thanks to everyone for their input.
I've been attempting to trigger a record SDI flag from the F23 to my SR-R1 by simply shorting that 24v trigger pin to ground, and whilst it does turn the tally light on, there doesn't seem to be much else that happens.
With the settings in camera set to "recorder" the tally comes on and SR-R1 confirms that an acceptable SDI trigger source is connected, but no actual recording starts.
So perhaps I'm doing something wrong or the F23 still expects a docked recorder to actually make things happen, in line with what Mitch discussed.
Haven't tried with a proper run/stop but I wouldn't think it would work any differently to just holding the trigger pin to GND.
Click to expand...

Going to pick up this thread and try everything people are saying. We need some images to clarify what we are talking about. Seems like a lot of talk about pins... I also remember vidovation mentioning that there is a push pin on the dock ports of the cameras that tell the camera that there is a recorder docked. Maybe this pin plus the toggle switch may get it working.

Let's see.

Any other tests on your end, please share progress.
 
remote-port.jpg

Here is the wiring diagram for the remote port on the F35 (Page 142 in the manual). To trigger recorder you need to short the GND pin with the Remote pin. As long as those pins remain shorted the camera will be in record mode with tally's, etc... If I recall correctly there is a setting in the Maintenance menu to get triggering to work. I looked at the manual and I believe it is the REC TRIGGER setting which can be set to SWITCH or RECORDER, I don't recall which one is correct option though.
 
I'm fairly certain I tried all avenues for this and was able to get the tally light working but nothing else.

It's buried in a thread somewhere but to my knowledge the camera just won't do anything useful without confirming a match between between video going to and from the dock, vidovation had to emulate this mojo in order to manually trigger external recording. Would love to be wrong though.
 
Last edited:
It was my experience that I could get the Tally's and record trigger a SRW-1 attached to the IF box but I was not able to trigger an Odyssey. It is my understanding the trigger signal is some proprietary sony thing and not supported by other recorders. My next idea was to have a trigger that connects to both the f35 and Odyssey so you could trigger them at the same time. This works but it concerned me that I may have a situation where the f35 is triggered but not the Odyssey and I would not know.

My final idea was to trigger the Odyssey and use it's power out that lights up the led on their trigger cable to trigger Tally's on the f35, basically use that voltage to close a circuit that shorts the GND and REMOTE pins on the f35. I am almost positive this can be done but I was not able to to find a relay locally that would switch with the very low wattage going to the led circuit and sold the f35 before I was successful.
 
dhessel said:
It was my experience that I could get the Tally's and record trigger a SRW-1 attached to the IF box but I was not able to trigger an Odyssey. It is my understanding the trigger signal is some proprietary sony thing and not supported by other recorders. My next idea was to have a trigger that connects to both the f35 and Odyssey so you could trigger them at the same time. This works but it concerned me that I may have a situation where the f35 is triggered but not the Odyssey and I would not know.

My final idea was to trigger the Odyssey and use it's power out that lights up the led on their trigger cable to trigger Tally's on the f35, basically use that voltage to close a circuit that shorts the GND and REMOTE pins on the f35. I am almost positive this can be done but I was not able to to find a relay locally that would switch with the very low wattage going to the led circuit and sold the f35 before I was successful.
Click to expand...

How did you attach the srw1 to the IF Box?

I have been able to trigger recorders from the SDI (trigger signal is definitely not proprietary) when SRW1 was docked and the rec button from the camera operative and starting the SRW1 record. It records to SRW1 and through SDI on camera it triggers an external ricorder.
 
dhessel said:
View attachment 136895

Here is the wiring diagram for the remote port on the F35 (Page 142 in the manual). To trigger recorder you need to short the GND pin with the Remote pin. As long as those pins remain shorted the camera will be in record mode with tally's, etc... If I recall correctly there is a setting in the Maintenance menu to get triggering to work. I looked at the manual and I believe it is the REC TRIGGER setting which can be set to SWITCH or RECORDER, I don't recall which one is correct option though.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That’s useful. There is a remote port at the back of the camera, so I am glad to see this diagram! Thanks
 
I had it connected only via sdi cables to the if box, I believe I had to alter the record trigger setting to get it to work but I has been a while. As I recall the remote port is on the front right side of the camera, I don't recall one on the back.
 
Ok... so what I am starting to see is that the IF Box does not output trigger record signals, but the camera monitor outs in 10bit 422 do. I’ll do some testing and let you guys know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top