Is the laptop the new cinema, tv and radio?

filmman

filmman

Veteran
I spend more of my time on the laptop than on anything else. It's like now the Internet is my forum and my entertainment.

If I can find my audience on the web, I might as well make all my programming for the web.

Can I make a living at it? Ads? Commercials? TV is free ... but we pay through the products we buy, no? So we can do the same with our websites.

What do you think?
 
While online media is a good outlet these days, you'll find a majority of your shows watched and radio programs listened to online are still viewable on television, and in most cases are accompanied by commercials you'll see on television anyway. Take ABC.com. They have a slew of sponsors to support their online viewing modules. People like Tide, Lysol, and TheDump Furniture Outlet all have commercials that appear periodically through an episode. Hulu uses similar advertising to keep their shows free of charge to the public.

So, if you think about it in the ways of mainstream online media, there really is not profitable gain unless you're hosting programs that people are already televisually inclined to watch, and then you're money will come from the same sponsors that keep said show on the air.

Commercially, there are no commercials that I have found online that haven't been aired on television. There are no "made for the internet" commercials as of yet. The basis for making money from a website has always come from "Join Fees" for membership sites, or from Advertisers which normally includes a banner or a small flash presentation on your site. The drawback is that anyone with a basic knowledge of Flash, HTML, SHTML, Java, etc can make a website. You have to find the HOOK that makes your page something of interest (i.e. MySpace, Facebook, Fan Sites). A guy I served with in Iraq augmented his Navy pay by almost $14k a year because he hosted the #2 Chicago Bears fan site with a high traffic volume.

On that same token, you have to ensure you have a large enough server to handle the amount of traffic needed to make a page that profitable without crashing.

Granted, I have a basic user's knowledge of the internet. :)

Rod
 
THE INTERNETS IS KING!


Well at least The Prince and first inline to the dying decrepitly old king of TV and Movie Theater.

Soon enough... within the next few years to be sure.
 
What I mean is that a web page can be someone's venue.

Here is a trailer I edited today. It's not completely to my liking, but I need people to see it and comment on it so I can improve it.

The purpose of this trailer is to get people to buy DVDs or downloads of my feature film BUTTERFLIES IN THE WIND.

http://www.releasing.net/butterflies_09p.html
 
Oh, so you're focusing on using a website as more of a promotional deal...okay. You're best bet for even attempting the launch of an unknown website for an unknown film is to attempt a viral campaign. This of course would cost a reasonable fee to set up and continue through to fruition, and in the end, you'll probably lose money.

Another route is to set up a blog, and keep it current with something people want to read about. Lure them in, keep writing about...whatever...and then POOF, put a link to the site selling your DVDs (or to the purchase page if you're trying to self-sell.)
 
The internet is an unsurpassed way of getting your films seen. The problem, as mentioned, is finding ways of turning hits into money.

It's not that easy. There is a feeling that everything on the internet should be free. It feels onerous to have to pay.

That's something that is more and more common the younger people are.

As Rod says, the best approach is somekind of viral marketing campaign. The less money you have, the more innovative it needs to be.

Check out Peter Broderick's website for some tips on how to self market films. He's been pushing that idea for a while and there have been some notable successes.

One of the crucial things to remember is that films have no intrinsic value. The only reason people spend money on films or music, is that the marketing tells them they should. That, in essence, is what the industry is. A giant marketing bubble to convince people to spend their money on something that has no intrinsic value.

In other words, you can't sell a film. You have to sell them the idea of something else. An experience they can't miss out on, the chance to be part of something etc

That's the trick IMO. Independents can't compete with Hollywood studios at selling films, they can sell a $100M movie for $4 in Wallmart. You have to charge $19 dollars for something that cost relative pennies to make. So you have to find a way of making it an inclusive experience. Even if that is just the fact that they can actually chat to the filmmaker on line about the film.

Also, bear in mind that you can use the film itself as a marketing tool, to sell other stuff on your website. Merchandise etc. I'm not sure how that relates to such a cinematic (in the European sense of the word) film as Butterflies, but it's something to bear in mind.
 
As regards the trailer. I'll try and give my thoughts as an audience member, rather than as a filmmaker.

For me it's difficult to get a grasp on what the film is about. I think a trailer needs to plant a dramatic question in the viewers mind, one that they can only answer by watching the film.

Although it's a different kind of film, you can still borrow ideas from Hollywood on how to target audiences. They are masters at making trailers.

Give a sense of the fundamental dramatic question in the film. Even if you have to use a voice over or whatever. And tell the audience why it's so good.

Whose story is it? What are they after? What's stopping them?

"The endless conflict between good and evil in human life. No one knows when they are born and when they will die. The very last day may come anytime, so one must always be prepared. This is a high concept drama with comical elements. The story concerns some global problems, birth and death, love and friendship, people and money, family and religion. The dialogue is not overtly philosophical, but there is a deeper level to the story for the earnest viewer. The religious aspect of the storyline doesn't intrude on the audience's ability of enjoying the movie as straightforward entertainment, despite the dynamics of the plot structure. There are some humorous episodes in the story as well."

This is the description of your piece on Amazon. For me it's too esoteric. It's telling us what the theme's are and what it's really about, but not enough about the story itself.

It's also apologetic in tone. "It's really deep, but it's still a bit funny if you're thick", is how it comes across.:) I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Tell us the story in 20 words. And tell us something about the author (you).

"A startling look at life and death and everything in between, by rising Direcotr Vic Alexander...Butterflies in the Wind"

Or something. I've not seen it. So, I can't really do better, but hopefully my rambling has been of some use.

Rick.
 
I personally stopped to listening to radio after i gained acces to internet and it was like... 10 years ago , i just stopped immediately cause there are so many radiostations here and you can listen what you like not what they want you to listen in your radiostation from your city.
There is one big marketing circle where peoples really dont have the choice to watch and listen what tv and radio gives them , they are in a trap and have to watch and listen what tv and radio producers throw at them even if its some britney spears or reality show.Of course they can buy some cds or dvd but it still is what producers want them to buy and if they airing on the radio one track 15 times per day then what you can do ,most peoples think its popular and good so they listen to it.Theres so more brainwashing on the media ,but i dont want to talk about this and ruin my day.
Buisness everywhere .
 
It's all very well criticsing the business aspect of TV etc, but how exactly are they supposed to support themselves without commercial revenue?

People either need to accept that you need to make money and hence have to pander to corporate sponsors , or accept that no-one is going to make money out of films/TV and everything is going to be free.

Besides, it's already the case that you can watch pretty much what you want, when you want.

Sky+, BBC iplayer, etc
 
Rod:
People like Tide, Lysol, and TheDump Furniture Outlet all have commercials that appear periodically through an episode.
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But, Rod, this is the old format. Things have changed dramatically. Standard commercials are not the way to go. Of course, I'm not saying TV is dead already, but the Internet is coming on strong, and as far as I'm concerned as a viewer (not as a filmmaker yet -- this is what I'm fighting myself: how to rid myself of old perceptions) the Internet is transforming the way audiences experience entertainment.
 
Rod:
You have to find the HOOK that makes your page something of interest (i.e. MySpace, Facebook, Fan Sites). A guy I served with in Iraq augmented his Navy pay by almost $14k
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That's what I'm talking about. We need to find out how to do this.
 
Rod:
Another route is to set up a blog, and keep it current with something people want to read about. Lure them in, keep writing about...whatever...and then POOF, put a link to the site selling your DVDs
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You're right, viral marketing takes too much time. Blogging is the way to go -- I agree.

Look at Adam and the Corrado thread! There is the star of dvx user website. Adam's blog is the venue, the production -- this is what we have, this is the hit movie, the theatrical extravaganza of the Internet.

Of course, Adam is pursuing his new movie project in the traditional sense; but that art form is dying (practically dead in my opinion).

What everybody wants to read and experience is how Adam is going to "make the movie".

Making movies is not a lucrative business and it's really a dead end profession. But since schools are turning out millions of fillmmakers everyday and digital equipment manufacturers are making billions selling their cameras, this virutal dream has to be propogated.

Adam's threads on dvx user are bigger than most indie movies (including his own movies regretably, and also certainly my movie BUTTERFLIES IN THE WIND.) LOL

I've only gotten one comment on my new trailer. People don't have time to look at trailers, they have no time to see movies. In the foreign market, buyers buy movies by looking at trailers and they buy something they like or something that has won a festival.

When the buyers of the indie movies take the movies home to their countries and issue DVDs for sale in DVD stores, nobody watches these DVDs. People rent the DVDs based on the artwork on the box, but rarely do the renters actually watch the whole DVD. Nobody watches these movies anymore. There is no time, there is no interest. We're living in a crazy world. There are drugs and pornography -- these are what our audience appreciates more.

IMO. I'm talking through my hat for all I know; but this is what I think. It's really what I think.

Anyway, I've been to the inernational film markets for twenty years. I've been a distributor at many of these markets. I'm talking from actual experience.

So what we have now are the blogs the vlogs and the websites like Myspace, Youtube, Facebook -- hell, I can't even remember them anymore.
 
Thanks, Decadence.

First of all, thanks for the time you took to watch my trailer and comment on it. I really appreciate that.

The internet is an unsurpassed way of getting your films seen. The problem, as mentioned, is finding ways of turning hits into money.
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Well, there is Google Ads. I'm making a few hundred dollars a year from that. It's better than nothing. Finally somebody is paying me for writing.LOL

So you have to find a way of making it an inclusive experience. Even if that is just the fact that they can actually chat to the filmmaker on line about the film.
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I have to make my websites interactive. But that entails learning PHP or whatever it is -- like this website and all the user websites I'm on. This is my favorite actually.

I have to actually put up a user website about 35mm filmmaking, which is my favorite format for originating movies. I also sell 35mm short ends, so I desperately need to learn how to do a website like this.
 
Decadence Films:
For me it's difficult to get a grasp on what the film is about. I think a trailer needs to plant a dramatic question in the viewers mind, one that they can only answer by watching the film.
Click to expand...

I was going to immediately take up paper and pencil and write this down, so that every time I'm cutting a trailer I make sure I include this concept in it.

But then I thought you better tattoo it on your skull.LOL

Whose story is it? What are they after? What's stopping them?
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Excellent!

It's also apologetic in tone. "It's really deep, but it's still a bit funny if you're thick", is how it comes across.:) I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Tell us the story in 20 words. And tell us something about the author (you).

"A startling look at life and death and everything in between, by rising Direcotr Vic Alexander...Butterflies in the Wind"
Click to expand...

You're right, I have to change that description about my movie BUTTERFLIES IN THE WIND on Amazon.

I'm not selling DVDs.
 
Bwwd:
Theres so more brainwashing on the media ,but i dont want to talk about this and ruin my day.
Buisness everywhere.
Click to expand...

I know, Bwwd. I'll never forget, one of the last things Norman Mailer complained about a few weeks before he died (in an interview) was: "these TV commercials -- they have to get rid of them..."

It was as though it was the whole summation of what our life is. It's really sad that all we are is consumers. I hate it, and I'm going to do something about it!LOL
 
yeah , now everytime when i listen to some crappy commercial and hyped song in the radio i immediately turn it off ,its good that you can listen what you want to and watch what you want to cause what you can watch on tv ? Only things which they will give you , and you can buy some dvds yes but... probably some new ones ,thre can be a shop with dvds and what if half of them is batman dark knight ,you buy it cause you dont have a big choice and you want to watch some film.On internet you can buy and watch whatever film you want.You can find the song which you were looking for half of your life instead of listen to the radio until they play the song again instead of listening britney "songs" all the time on the radio because they have it contracted to play it MANYYYYY times per day.
 
I'm really enjoying music again after years and years of never listening to anything. I never bought a CD player for example and never bought any CDs the entire time CDs were the norm.

Now I get bands sending me CDs to include in my movies and I don't even have time to pop them into the computer and listening to them. I play everything off the web.

I listen to a hundred pieces of music a day. I love it. So many great bands -- from all over the world too.
 
Vic,

This article is quite interesting I think. Personally I think it makes a lot of sense for an artist such as yourself.

http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php

The idea is basically that you need to get only 1000 True Fans, defined as fans who will buy everything that you do.

If they spend, on average $100 per year, that equals $100,000. A nice living.

In the article they reckon a videomaker might need 5,000 True Fans. (Films are slow to make, therefore less stuff to buy and no opportunity for tours etc).

5,000 is still a feasible target.
 
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One other thing to remember. Your first film doesn't have to sell that well at first. As long as you keep going and you find something of a breakthrough hit, you'll find that people will start to check out your earlier stuff.

That's the good thing about self-distribution. You keep the rights, so you can still collect money 20 years later.:)
 
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